Early chip leaders in MTT's--how?

[JGlo]

Forgive me if this is a newbie type question, but I want some theories on something in MTT's that I have yet to figure out. I have been playing online for about 9 months and have had some success at the MTT's. The best I have finished is 4th in an 860 man $5 tourney on PokerRoom and various other times have placed in the money. I have always read and taken the advice that in the MTT's, you try to survive, play tight the first several rounds and then loosen up your play later on.

What amazes me is that (at least in the $5 and $10 MTT's) every time, after about 30 minutes, several people already have anywhere from $8,000 to $10,000 in chips, and we usually start with 800 or 1000.

The question probably shows my inexperience, but I would like to know what they are doing. Are they taking several longshot all-in chances because of the low buy-ins, are they getting lucky, are they just that much better than everyone else? Is it like this in the $100 and up MTT's? Just curious to the different opinions. Thank you for any response. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wegs the wegs]

They are the luckiest player at the loosest table. These are the players that typically go all-in frequently and just seem to hit everything. Very very rarely are these skillful players. Make a mental note of their name next time you see this in a tournament. Check back in when it gets to the money. More often than not they will not be there.

[krabby5]

At the earliest levels, when I get AA or KK, I may just go all in preflop...some idiot usually calls with 10-10 or something like that....

But mostly it is luck...but I wouldn't say those people are not skilled...they just got the idiots money..

I remember one time I was 5th in chips out of about 200 at Pokerroom after the first break in a $5 multi...I kept getting action when I was flopping monsters...

Someone is going to get the fool money, it may as well be you.

At the $5 level multi, I play my premium hands very aggressively so I can have a decent stack after the first break...

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
They are the luckiest player at the loosest table. These are the players that typically go all-in frequently and just seem to hit everything. Very very rarely are these skillful players. Make a mental note of their name next time you see this in a tournament. Check back in when it gets to the money. More often than not they will not be there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who gets a massive stack early I mark as a fish until proven otherwise (unless I see them happen to score big with a legit hand). If they're at my table I target and try to isolate them. If I have any confidence I have them beat, I push my stack into the middle. I can't tell you how many times I've doubled through this way. Of course I also can't tell you how many times I've been sucked out in by the same people, but that's poker. I can tell you approximately how many times I've been wrong about them being a fish: damn few.

[sonicblue]

[ QUOTE ]
But mostly it is luck...but I wouldn't say those people are not skilled...they just got the idiots money..


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. This happened to me last week, on St Pat's day. I entered a big Party tourney, about 1700 people, and I became a card rack after about a half an hour of play. And I had callers all the time. It was absolutely unreal. It happens. Then the "big stack" fun begins.
There are always a few, regardless of skill, who catch absurd cards in those tourneys, and the callers are there with the cards.

[krille]

i think like 2 days ago i played a $5000 freeroll on party and had like 5000 chips after 30 minutes... most of which came when I had JTss allin against 3 opponents on a flop of AsQs8d.

I also played a $20 tourny on prima a while ago where i was the chipleader at the first break with something like 10000, simply by getting a lot of KK, AA hands, and a lot of good flops with my other hands.

If you play enough tournaments u will be the find yourself in the same spot from time to time. Having so many chips early on does help quite a bit though, in the freeroll i finished ~50 out of >1500 (top 30 paid, but played to win ;P) and in the other tourny i came 15/200.

In my best tournaments thus far Ive never had a big stack early on though. My biggest win i actually was down to 1/3 my original stack after the first hour.

Often when i have a big stack at my table i will often see him go allin with crap, which leads me to believe that most of the early-big-stacks have just gotten very lucky on their all-ins. These guys pretty quickly lose their chips to the better players though.

I cant speak much on how it is at the bigger buyins as i have only played in 2 $100 MTTs.

Unless it is a rebuy tournament, dont try to gamble it up just to get a big stack early, its not worth it.

[kmvenne]

Just because you havn't won a MTT yet and you havn't had a huge stack after the first few levels, these are not related facts. It's more important to have a big stack into the later breaks then in the earlier ones. MTT's are decided on no bigger factor then controlling the later stages, and you can't do that playing like the guys that have 10x the starting chips after the first hour likely played.

Consider those monster stack guys the variance opposites of all those guys that you saw go out in the first 10 minutes chasing a low straight or something of the sort. It got those suckers early, and it will get the early monsters later, when less players are left giving you a better shot to be the one to end him. In this regard, those guys are our friends.

[PukaPlaya]

Periodically I will be one of "those" guys and have won a few and final tabled many $100 or less buyin MTT's. Usually it happens when I am sitting on the button, SB or BB and there are 2-3 all ins in front of me and I have AA or KK which happens more than you'd expect. Just recently in a Paradise $25 MTT this happened to me and I ended with 17,000 at the break. UTG goes all in with 1010, middle raises all in with AK and cutoff calls with KK. I had AA in the SB and all of them covered and none of them improve. I ended up coming in 2nd in that one.

Anotherwords you can be a solid player and just get lucky. The trick is after getting a good lead to not get cocky with your stack and to play solid big stack poker. What I am trying to say is that it's not only the maniacs who get lucky...

But I agree with many of the posts here that are saying it is usually the maniacs who go all in with crap and get lucky against big pairs who end up a the the top before the break.

Your goal should be to double up before the break by taking down smallish pots and gambling when you have good odds.

My 2 cents.

[housenuts]

TPFAP - Why the First Day Leader at the WSOP Never Wins