Need Backer

[Xyeej]

I know there's been a relatively bad aura surrounding backing players in this forum for the past few weeks, but I figured I would at least try.

Me: 18, Senior in high school. Playing for 12 months now. Started at NL25 and was playing NL50 and $22 SNGs on Party until this week. I have recently liquidated my Party account because I will be going to Europe this summer. So I am out of a bankroll and want to scrape out a new one by entering into a backing agreement with someone.

I was formally playing the $22 SNGs at Party and had a ROI of ~25-28% and an ITM of ~39-44% over 230 SNGS. These stats are on my other computer so the numbers are a bit fuzzy.

I play 3 tables at a time (2sngs and 1 nl cash) for 2-3hrs/day on weekdays and 8hrs/day on weekends. I get in 30-40 SNGs in per week.

I need:

-Preferable staking for $22 SNGs (25-30 buyins), but willing to play the $11s

Terms: (I am set on these, but any additions, I'm all ears.)

- I am 100% liable for stake if lost.
- I have option to buy out backer after a predetermined amount of SNGs for a predetermined price.
- Backer will receive 50% of all profits indefinitely or until I buy-out of the agreement.


I am completely serious on this. This Friday my spring break begins. I plan to devote this break to rebuild my bankroll. No spring break trip for me because I'm planning to tour Europe this summer.

William

[Xyeej]

oh snap

[1C5]

Scrape together the money if at all possible. This is a bad deal for you.

[Mr_J]

I agree. You could really get started with $100-150 (at the $11s) and probally not experience a large enough downswing to bust you. Course, more is better.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
I know there's been a relatively bad aura surrounding backing players in this forum for the past few weeks, but I figured I would at least try.

Me: 18, Senior in high school. Playing for 12 months now. Started at NL25 and was playing NL50 and $22 SNGs on Party until this week. I have recently liquidated my Party account because I will be going to Europe this summer. So I am out of a bankroll and want to scrape out a new one by entering into a backing agreement with someone.

I was formally playing the $22 SNGs at Party and had a ROI of ~25-28% and an ITM of ~39-44% over 230 SNGS. These stats are on my other computer so the numbers are a bit fuzzy.

I play 3 tables at a time (2sngs and 1 nl cash) for 2-3hrs/day on weekdays and 8hrs/day on weekends. I get in 30-40 SNGs in per week.

I need:

-Preferable staking for $22 SNGs (25-30 buyins), but willing to play the $11s

Terms: (I am set on these, but any additions, I'm all ears.)

- I am 100% liable for stake if lost.
- I have option to buy out backer after a predetermined amount of SNGs for a predetermined price.
- Backer will receive 50% of all profits indefinitely or until I buy-out of the agreement.


I am completely serious on this. This Friday my spring break begins. I plan to devote this break to rebuild my bankroll. No spring break trip for me because I'm planning to tour Europe this summer.

William

[/ QUOTE ]

Save $200 from your Europe trip.

[FishBurger]

After exchanging a few PMs, I have decided to back Xyeej at the $22s under the following agreement:

1) FishBurger agrees to provide $550 bankroll for the $22 SnGs on Party. Xyeej agress to play no higher than the $22s but may play lower ($11s). Xyeej is 100% liable for stake if lost.
2) FishBurger will receive 40% of all profits indefinitely or until Xyeej buy-outs of the agreement.
3) Xyeej has option to buy out backer (FishBurger) at any time. Xyeej just needs to return the original roll ($550) plus 40% of profits made up until time of buyout.
4) FishBurger has the right to cancel this agreement and receive the original bankroll back ($550) plus 40% of profits made up until that time if Xyeej does not play at least 40 SnGs per month.
5) Xyeej agrees to transfer 40% of profits to FishBurger at the end of each month, with the first transfer taking place on April 30, 2005.
6) In the event the roll is lost, Xyeej agrees to pay back FishBurger at the minimum rate of $125 bi-weekly until the roll is repaid ($550) with the first payment taking place on April 18, 2005.

I asked Xyeej if he wouldn't mind if I posted our agreement here and he said that was fine. I like the idea of posting a written agreement publicly before the backing begins because it will keep both of us accountable in the future.

If anyone (especially those that have backed or have been backed) sees anything in the above agreement that is unclear, please post suggested revisions in this thread. This is the first time I have entered into a backing agreement and if this backing arrangement works out I plan on backing other players using a similar "contract" as that posted above.

[citanul]

i don't know if it would interest either of you, but i would have made a clause for if you wanted to continue backing him and move him up in stakes.

citanul

[J-Lo]

I'm more skeptical at the fact that he only has <30 posts... Taking it for what it is, it easily looks like a skam, but if u feel confident being able to "read" a good player from a con artist, more power to you. If this is for real, i wish you both the best of luck. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Xyeej]

Let's hope it all works out. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Degen]

horrible deal for you man, but hope it works out.

Degen

[Xyeej]

Why so horrible?

-I am pretty confident of my winrate.
-I am dead broke right now.

I believe it is an opportunity rather than me getting suckered. It's +EV for both parties. FB has a horse and I am able to earn a roll. I am able to play my normal game instead of being forced to rebuild from the complete bottom with a barely scraped-together roll.

IMO, the road from the bottom of the barrel($6s) to the $11s and then to the $22s is a long, hard road. I can and have been beating the $22s, and I do not believe it would be worth my time to play otherwise.

Of course, if you have any ideas, throw them at me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Pokerscott]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone (especially those that have backed or have been backed) sees anything in the above agreement that is unclear, please post suggested revisions in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should open up a new party account and transfer the $550 to that fresh account. This will make the tracking a ton easier and will eliminate the problem of knowing when he is playing his own vs. your money.

Pokerscott

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
After exchanging a few PMs, I have decided to back Xyeej at the $22s under the following agreement:

1) FishBurger agrees to provide $550 bankroll for the $22 SnGs on Party. Xyeej agress to play no higher than the $22s but may play lower ($11s). Xyeej is 100% liable for stake if lost.
2) FishBurger will receive 40% of all profits indefinitely or until Xyeej buy-outs of the agreement.
3) Xyeej has option to buy out backer (FishBurger) at any time. Xyeej just needs to return the original roll ($550) plus 40% of profits made up until time of buyout.
4) FishBurger has the right to cancel this agreement and receive the original bankroll back ($550) plus 40% of profits made up until that time if Xyeej does not play at least 40 SnGs per month.
5) Xyeej agrees to transfer 40% of profits to FishBurger at the end of each month, with the first transfer taking place on April 30, 2005.
6) In the event the roll is lost, Xyeej agrees to pay back FishBurger at the minimum rate of $125 bi-weekly until the roll is repaid ($550) with the first payment taking place on April 18, 2005.

I asked Xyeej if he wouldn't mind if I posted our agreement here and he said that was fine. I like the idea of posting a written agreement publicly before the backing begins because it will keep both of us accountable in the future.

If anyone (especially those that have backed or have been backed) sees anything in the above agreement that is unclear, please post suggested revisions in this thread. This is the first time I have entered into a backing agreement and if this backing arrangement works out I plan on backing other players using a similar "contract" as that posted above.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I will add my $0.02 here since I've done quite a bit of this.

1. The deal is fair and standard, with the exception that 40% is too low a rake for the backer.

2. The problem is:

Email
Member # 22841
Name
Title newbie
Total Posts 37
Homepage
Occupation
Hobbies
Location
Bio
ICQ Number
Registered on 12/06/04 07:36 PM

You are a dog to collect from somebody this random.

In general, people tend to underestimate the risk for the backer and assume that the backee is paying too much. This is nonsense. People generally underestimate the risk because they figure they would neither cheat nor lose. To the extent that most people feel that they are good poker players, most people feel like they would be a good investment for somebody to back. This is clearly not true.

I feel that my success backing players is largely due to the fact that I usually back players that I "know" well on 2+2. The one exception I made was the only time I got burned.

Irieguy

[Degen]

the horrible part is you paying it back if you lose.

its not like he's doing something bad, you offered it. you are giving him 40% of any winnings for what? allowing you to hold on to a few hundred bucks for a month?

do you live in LA? come do some sales for us for a week...make $500 and stake yourself.


i guess if you're broke and have no other outs...its better than not being in the game but thats about the sweetest deal he could ever get.


Degen

[Pepsquad]

This isn't backing...it's loan sharking.

[Xyeej]

Yep, this is basically just a loan.

Obviously, I have no credibility on this board like Irie pointed out. I think this loan-type agreement would be best because I have to start out somewhere. Trust has to be gained from all parties involved. This is a small price to pay, I think, in relation to the type of relationship that can grow out of this. It truly isn't easy just getting a free ride.

[FishBurger]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, I will add my $0.02 here since I've done quite a bit of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate the input.

[ QUOTE ]

1. The deal is fair and standard, with the exception that 40% is too low a rake for the backer.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on how many of your backees take the bankroll and run. If none of them do, then the deal is more than fair for the backer. Maybe what I will do in the future is charge 50% for new backees and a lower rate for those in which I've had a previous successful relationship.

Ideally, anyone I back would triple the bankroll, pay me back the original roll and my cut, and then go on his own with a healthy bankroll.

[ QUOTE ]

2. The problem is:

Email
Member # 22841
Name
Title newbie
Total Posts 37
Homepage
Occupation
Hobbies
Location
Bio
ICQ Number
Registered on 12/06/04 07:36 PM

You are a dog to collect from somebody this random.



[/ QUOTE ]

To mitigate the risks somewhat, I've requested screenshots of Xyeej's Party lobby, account balance, and cashier history. I'm sure this stuff can be faked, but if everything checks out, I will feel comfortable moving forward. There is a definite risk here, but the reward could be pretty substantial, too.

[ QUOTE ]

In general, people tend to underestimate the risk for the backer and assume that the backee is paying too much. This is nonsense. People generally underestimate the risk because they figure they would neither cheat nor lose. To the extent that most people feel that they are good poker players, most people feel like they would be a good investment for somebody to back. This is clearly not true.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I admit to being somewhat blinded by greed right now. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]

I feel that my success backing players is largely due to the fact that I usually back players that I "know" well on 2+2. The one exception I made was the only time I got burned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though you've had one bad experience (and here I make no judgment on who was right or wrong in that instance because I don't know all the facts), it seems like you have been well-rewarded by your other backees.

If my $550 disappears into the ether never to be seen again, then I will have essentially wasted four-to-five of those evenings that I sit on my ass and play SnGs. It will hurt, but I won't starve.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

[FishBurger]

[ QUOTE ]

You should open up a new party account and transfer the $550 to that fresh account. This will make the tracking a ton easier and will eliminate the problem of knowing when he is playing his own vs. your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know, Xyeej will be playing my money because he is broke right now. I plan on using screenshots of his account balance and cashier history to track his play.

[Voltron87]

My take:

This is a loan. This is a terrible deal for OP. Staking/ backing is only +EV for a player if they are using it to minimize risk.

This is absolutely ridiculous. An internet loan amongst unknowns? It's a loan, not a staking/ backing deal. OP, get a job and earn $500.

It is one thing to get a backer to cut down on your risk. I think this is a very good idea. But that makes sense when a player is looking to play higher stakes games and someone who has money is looking to invest it. It usually doesn't make sense to have an agreement at lower limits.

OP, think of where you want to be in terms of your poker bankroll. Me, I either want to be totally stable with a sufficient bankroll, playing my own money, or being someone else's "investment" to play in higher stakes games to cut down on my risk. I currently do both.

But this loan sucks. I'm sorry if the loaner reads this and changes his mind, or if I break a deal, but this is a terrible idea. It is a 100% loan with bad interest. There is no redeeming quality in this deal. You are 100% liable and giving away ridiculous interest. Don't do it.

[Xyeej]

I have a job, but I do not go to work for another 2 weeks. Then, it will take me approximate 1-2 months to make $500 for a new bankroll.

Basically, time is an issue for me because it is spring break this next week for me. I plan to dedicate this time to rebuilding my bankroll. I see this deal as an advance on my paycheck.

Who knows... maybe this relationship can lead to true backing deals in the future if all goes well.

On any given day, I agree with your points that this is just basically a loan-sharking deal. But remember why people go to loan-sharks in the first place.

[Voltron87]

Seriously. It's a crappy deal for you. Your 18. Wait a couple months until you have a job or whatever it is you're doing. This crappy deal is not worth it.

[FishBurger]

In case anyone is interested, I decided to back out of this deal. Xyeej sent me his PartyPoker transaction history and it didn't quite match up with his original story or his past posts. Just in case there was a misunderstanding on my part, I transferred $75 to him with no strings attached as a token of goodwill.

And thus ends my backing career and dreams of easy money ...

[Rolen]

$75 Goodwill gesture?

Back me! Back me!

...Shame, but don't let it spoil other opportunities if they happen to come along