I steal then I suck?

[tiltaholic]

villian is new to the table, in second orbit. has not seen a flop outside of the blinds yet.

flop and turn comments?

when i steal and flop well, i'm fine. when i flop middle p air and get played back at...not so fine...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

[SomethingClever]

Hmm. Why are you raising the flop?

I'd smooth call the flop and consider raising or betting the turn if checked to.

Fold the turn if he either checkraises you or 3-bets a raise.

Edited to mention that I don't mind simply calling every street either, except the A on the turn changes things a bit. Also, this is better with a little more of a LAG read, or in a 6-max game.

[tiltaholic]

i don't know...i think at the time i figured he could be defending with any ace so i raised the flop... lame reasoning. imo. i think calling the flop may have been better, as you suggested. the ace on the turn made me feel that i was likely way behind against this unknown player.

i think i am just hemorraging chips in these situations at 2/4, where i am beginning to encounter players who play back (as opposed to the 1/2 guys who just up and fold...)

another:

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

i just don't feel comfortable at all. is ace-high enough to show down against the pf 3-bettor?

[MagicFlea]

I've got to fold on the flop. Even if he's stealing there's a 75% chance he has an ace with a higher kicker than you... when he reraised the flop he knew he was going heads up against a strong hand

even against an aggressive bettor the only possible hand you could have beaten is KQs

[Catt]

tilt - I think HU play generally, and steal play especially, is very read dependent, even if your read is only a couple of orbits at the table.

In hand 1, I wouldn't raise the flop, but I probably would've raised the turn if the A hadn't fallen. I think you can fold it when the A falls. I don't suppose Villain's couple of times he saw the flop told you anything about his post-flop play?

In hand 2, I'd really want a read on SB to inform my play (and would also like to understand my own image at the table, even if SB in particular hasn't been there for a while). Against a total unknown I'd probably call to the river, and either call a river bet, raise a river bet, or bet myself if checked to (depending on what fell, of course). In other circumstances I can see folding the turn. A read on SB, and my own table image for those who have sat through multiple orbits with me would really alter my approach to this hand.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know...i think at the time i figured he could be defending with any ace so i raised the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

In a short-handed situation like this, there are several things you want to consider.

Sometimes you want to get more money in with the best hand.

Sometimes you want to let another player continue to bluff at you.

Sometimes you want to win the pot right away.

Sometimes you want to give up.

A read helps. In this situation, with no read, all we have to go on is that he simply defended preflop and then led the flop. Given the board, I don't think he's on a total bluff. However, he doesn't necessarily have the J, and there's a slim but nonzero chance he has an overpair that he slowplayed preflop.

A lot of the time he has a 7 like you, or he has a medium to small pair... anything from 22 to 99... and he's betting because he puts you on a bricked Ax.

On the flop, you likely have 5 outs, and you could in fact be ahead. Against a lot of 6-max players, I will just call this down, unless I hit trips or a two pair. It's the lose the least/win the most line.

When you raise and get 3-bet by an unknown, you're probably behind. I usually call the 3-bet and fold the turn UI.

But when the A falls on the turn, I think this gives you some extra fold equity, given that you raised preflop. Hence the option of raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet. *However* I wouldn't do this after getting 3-bet on the flop. If he's capable of folding, and you smooth-called the flop, this is probably a good play.

Again, I think without a read (and without that A on the turn), you should consider just calling this down UI.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I've got to fold on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got two overs and a backdoor flush draw getting 8:1. I'd call the flop.

I worry less about being dominated by SB when I've raised in an obvious steal situation and he 3-bets.

[tiltaholic]

thanks for the comments so far.
i realize that these hands are hard to interpret without reads...i'm heading home but will try to elaborate on them later tonight.

[DoctorDrew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've got to fold on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got two overs and a backdoor flush draw getting 8:1. I'd call the flop.


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