live $1/2 nl hand 67o

[Fairless]

I am in the SB w/$550 and the 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. 5 limpers and I complete.
Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I check, BB checks, MP goes all in for $50, loose player in LP calls $50. Some background on the loose player: two hands earlier I saw him call a $290 all in limp reraise with J9o vs AA. When he didn't get there he said he had a "feeling" he would hit. The player has me covered. So whats my play on the flop?

[BobboFitos]

WITH ONLY 2 DOLLARS INVESTED YOU SHOULD FOLD


...

How much $ does loose lp player have? That is the important detail left out in the hand

[Fairless]

I included in the post that opponent has me covered. He probably had around $600.

I disagree with folding. I have top two pair, a strong hand in this situation against a loose calling station.

[PinkSteel]

Reasonable chance MP flopped a set; overcards could make someone else a better two pair; any pocket pair over 7s beats you when the board pairs.

I fold. "Why get involved?"

[Fairless]

Does anyone see that I am up against a horrible player with lots of money left to bet with a hand that probably has him drawing thin. Two hands prior this player called almost $300 all in bet pre-flop w/J9o. I will never fold two pair against this type player unless he turns over his hole cards and shows me that I am beat. I realize that he probably has outs against me but folding two pair seems wrong.

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone see that I am up against a horrible player with lots of money left to bet with a hand that probably has him drawing thin. Two hands prior this player called almost $300 all in bet pre-flop w/J9o. I will never fold two pair against this type player unless he turns over his hole cards and shows me that I am beat. I realize that he probably has outs against me but folding two pair seems wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that you're in against TWO players and you're not going to be getting any more info about the MP's hand since he's all-in already. Between the two of them they might have you beat already and, if not, have a lot of outs between them. Sure you might beat the LP, but it seems unlikely that you will beat both.

Lay down, for sure.

[PinkSteel]

Sorry, I had neglected that MP was already all-in. So if you call that bet, your now HU vs. Mr. Loose and depending on your read maybe you go to war.

But I would still fold MP's all-in raise. I'd only go after Mr. Loose if I had him isolated, and I'm not going to pay $50 to get him isolated.

[kurto]

Here's the question.... if you reraise now, will the bad player come along? Its only worth going on if you are certain you can build a nice sidepot to compensate for the loss if the all-in player has you beat. (assuming you think its likely he has you beat.)

If you think the third player will call AND you have him beat, then raise now.

[Fairless]

I am not nearly as concerned about MP hand. I am interested in getting the player in LP to commit his stack to a draw. I might lose the main pot but win a huge pot from the LP.

[cyberSTACK]

I think it is unlikely that you are against a set. Pocket 2's maybe... but pockets 6's or 7's is unlikely. That is a very draw heavy board and there are MANY cards that you do not want to see on the turn. How do you plan on continuing if a spade or one of the many straight cards comes?

-Evan

[Fairless]

I am unsure of the MP holding. I saw this player rebuy in for the minimum ($50) several times over the course of a couple hours. He had only one play: limp pre-flop and if he hit the flop he pushed all-in.

Will the bad player come along?

Certainly, he has already shown a willingness to call of large amounts of money on draws and he has already called $50 on this hand.

[Wayfare]

Make it $125!
I just read the responses. Anyone who says to fold this should STOP POSTING.

[Fairless]

On the hand I called the $50 and raised $500 more all-in. The bad player insta-called. The turn was a J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and the river was a 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

LP shows: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
MP shows: A /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I would certainly not make this play against tough competition. The reason that I raised all-in is that I thought if he was on a draw I should charge him the maximum to draw out. If he wants to call why not let them right? So how bad was my play?

[kurto]

Based on your read of both players, I would raise now.

But it would help if you thought you could put either or both players on a hand so you might have an idea of when you might drop it.

Is the 2nd villain (the caller) likely to be calling against with J9? A7? An overpair? A straight or flush draw?

If you're going to play it, then I'd raise it at least $100. (Mind you, the advice from others may be better then mine. But if they're as weak as you say, I'd say this is a good opportunity to go-for-it. Just remember, weak players get good hands too.)

[Fairless]

Thats exactly what I thought. How in the hell can any sane player fold this hand. Thanks Wayfare I was begining to think that I lost my mind for a second.

[LetYouDown]

To be the voice of dissent here...based on your read of the opponent and his loose nature, I'd strongly consider a reraise. Sounds like you're very likely ahead of him. Best guess is overcard spades. Considering the stack sizes, paying off the $50 if he has a set seems reasonable considering the profit you can gain from the loose player.

I'd reraise, probably another 150 or whatever's required to price out a draw. Based on his reply to the raise, consider pushing any non-draw-completing turn. Again, you have to be fairly certain of your read, but it seems like you had enough to go on. If call/reraised on the flop, that's a tougher call and I'd consider bailing. Granted, all of this is read dependent.

[kurto]

Sheesh. I'm under the belief that people playing with 'real money' are going to be better then the players at on-line microlimits. I'm clearly delusional.

"The reason that I raised all-in is that I thought if he was on a draw I should charge him the maximum to draw out." Heck ya. I would've thought going all in would've made him fold... but I gave him too much credit.

"So how bad was my play?" As I said previously, if you know your opponents, its a great play. I'm just trying to decide which of your opponent's play was worse.

[Fairless]

As I said in the original post this player called a $300 preflop all-in raise with J9o. He was calling everything. I knew that if he had any draw, any peice of the flop that he was coming for all my money.

[canis582]

[ QUOTE ]
any pocket pair over 7s beats you when the board pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless its a boat!

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Make it $125!
I just read the responses. Anyone who says to fold this should STOP POSTING.

[/ QUOTE ]

when i said fold i was joking...

trying to use the cliche i've been crusading against. but wasn't interpreted correctly.

and yes, clearly, the correct play is to raise.

[Wayfare]

I know you were joking. Rozencranz and gildenstern were not. Neither was the other guy from maryland.

[SeattleJake]

Oh thank god. I was going to post until I saw BobboFitos, and was storing that one up for deep thought later on.

Don't do that :-|

[z32fanatic]

The $50 push and call is meaningless because the sidepot you can create with the calling station is far greater. I would make it $200 to go then push the turn. You could even check raise all in if you think he might call as it will look like you have a flush draw. This is your chance to take his stack.

Edit: Just looked at what you did, well played.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Joking is just not nice. Those guys who jumped on your bandwagon now look like big idiots when they could have just kept quiet if you hadn't goaded them out of the woodwork.

Anyways, you definitely cannot fold top two against these guys. I wouldn't even be surprised to see TWO draws here. Definitely seeing a set is seeing monsters here. MP does NOT have a set. He would bet small and try to get calls. He won't be worried about protecting his hand because he is short stacked anyways. He just wants to double or triple up if he has a set. LP might have a set, but he is SO bad that his hand range is HUGE. You should re-raise to get value from his much more likely draw or possibly top pair hand. People who are saying you are beat in one or two places here are possibly correct, of course. But there is no way that you are beat by their hand RANGES which is all that is important.