Help Me I'm A Vicious LAG (Play Along) [Archive]

View Full Version : Help Me I'm A Vicious LAG (Play Along)

toss

03-21-2005, 02:52 PM

No real reads on either players involved.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
4 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, CO calls.

This raise okay?

Flop: (7 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero ...

I think I should bet. What would you guys do?

davelin

03-21-2005, 02:55 PM

Bet

btspider

03-21-2005, 02:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Entity

03-21-2005, 02:57 PM

Bet. It's usually the last money I'm putting into the pot on this flop though.

@bsolute_luck

03-21-2005, 03:00 PM

i can't give advice on this play because i couldn't come up with a reason for why i would do anything - bet/call.

but i do have another question: A7s is raised preflop- is this recommended? i play .25/.5 and usually just limp any position with this holding. should i change this?

thanks (sorry toss for stepping into your thread
/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )

toss

03-21-2005, 03:01 PM

Okay everyone seems to agree on betting. Unfortunately I checked for some reason.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
4 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero...

I think I should check and take a cheap look at the river. Then again they both might be drawing... Actions to you.

Entity

03-21-2005, 03:01 PM

I'd check. Against one opponent I would bet.

Rob

toss

03-21-2005, 03:02 PM

No problem @bsolute. I raised since only CO limped and I didn't want the blinds to have free play. I often raise A8s and A9s against multiple limpers.

SlantNGo

03-21-2005, 03:05 PM

Yup, bet the flop, check the turn, although I don't think checking the flop is bad, I'd do that against opponents who call way too often on the flop.

davelin

03-21-2005, 03:05 PM

Wtf? We were promised some heavy-LAG action!

shadow29

03-21-2005, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A7s is raised preflop- is this recommended?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big difference between raising and open-raising.

btspider

03-21-2005, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check. Against one opponent I would bet.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

bottomset

03-21-2005, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wtf? We were promised some heavy-LAG action!

[/ QUOTE ]

toss

03-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Fine! Heres some heavy LAG action. You have to be a pretty crazy LAG to bet the turn like I did.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB calls, CO folds.

River: (5.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has As 7s (high card, ace).
SB has Kh Jd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: SB wins 5.50 BB. 

What I've learned: Don't try to steal on a non-scary turn after you've checked the flop.

SlantNGo

03-21-2005, 03:13 PM

I could see myself doing that from time to time as well... not terrible by any means, depends on your read on your opponents.

@bsolute_luck

03-21-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A7s is raised preflop- is this recommended?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big difference between raising and open-raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if they're were more people that have called before me in the same position as this hand, then i'd probably just call, but if there are few limpers- raise?

shadow29

03-21-2005, 03:17 PM

No, by open raising I mean everyone folds to you and then you raise. You should be open raising with a larger percentage of hands than you would if there were limpers ahead of you.

@bsolute_luck

03-21-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, by open raising I mean everyone folds to you and then you raise. You should be open raising with a larger percentage of hands than you would if there were limpers ahead of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay. i'll work on that. thanks.

Thigh

03-21-2005, 03:34 PM

Okay, so we're checking the turn because the pot is too small and we're still drawing to a hand? Is that it?

I'm kind of thinking that after checking the flop, I want to force something here. Maybe it'll just build the pot, but maybe these guys would fold. Or is the point to hopefully get the flush on the river and have more people in the pot?

Entity

03-21-2005, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so we're checking the turn because the pot is too small and we're still drawing to a hand? Is that it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm autobetting this flop, and assuming I get called, I think my folding equity is nil on this turn, so I'm checking.

As is, I don't think I have much folding equity on this turn, so I'm checking.

Rob

btspider

03-21-2005, 06:36 PM

SB is extremely loose and very passive.
BB is Tagish.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds.

@bsolute_luck

03-21-2005, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
SB is extremely loose and very passive.
BB is Tagish.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...wow. i definitely don't have the stones to do that /images/graemlins/frown.gif

cold_cash

03-21-2005, 06:47 PM

I'm late to this, but I just wanted to pipe in and say that if I raise pre-flop on the button and get two callers, there is no flop that I'm not betting.

DavidC

03-21-2005, 07:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No real reads on either players involved.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
4 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, CO calls.

This raise okay?

Flop: (7 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero ...

I think I should bet. What would you guys do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man, this is tough! I'd be tempted to bet it. I probably would bet it, but I think you should check it through.

You've got a BDF, which wants a free card, and anyone with a hand will check to you hoping to check-raise. The board is co-ordinated and you haven't paired yet and therefore you're afraid of just about any card other than an ace, a seven, or a spade. Having one overcard instead of two really hurts your hand, because you're not going to have very many outs if you don't have the best hand.

In addition, if you're really fishing for reasons, the CO probably doesn't have an ace, or he would have raised with it, so:
-you're unlikely to be reverse dominated or just plain old dominated (good).
-you have more cards out there that could hurt you on the turn, if you aren't losing already (bad).

Also, if you bet the flop EVERY time you make a PFR, you're going to be too predictable. (I bet 45% of the time, raise 15% of the time, and check-raise 1%, over my last 850 hands)

Nice PF raise though! I would have definitely done that. You've got to try to isolate loose and/or weak players here, and steal the money in the blinds. Reads on opponents are important, but as a standard play, go for it. Your position rocks.

The real problem is that if you bet, you pretty much have to bet the turn as well, unless you're planning to fold on the river vs a bet after your turn check (really weak).

shadow29

03-21-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is extremely loose and very passive.
BB is Tagish.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...wow. i definitely don't have the stones to do that /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize Hero has a straight, right?

DoctorDrew

03-21-2005, 08:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is extremely loose and very passive.
BB is Tagish.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...wow. i definitely don't have the stones to do that /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize Hero has a straight, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! That's funny stuff shadow.

Well played Mr. Spider.