Wilson Type Software

[Woody09]

What are people's opinions on the best wilson turbo type software. I am planning on buying something to practice without playing online and I am curious as to what the best programs are, if not wilson. Any opinions are greatly appreciated

Thanks

[deviouz]

Wilson is the best, it's well worth the money. it may look a little bit old, but it is a very complex program. buy it!

[eniven]

Negatory. Look up Poker Academy. Its much better. It has the most advanced poker AI in the world.

[Woody09]

Is it newer? I mean, there has got to be someone how has made better than wilson I figured only b/c wilsdon is that old

[eniven]

Poker Academy was developed as a direct result of Research into AI conducted by the University of Alberta's comp sci games group. The games group has developed a number of world class game AI (like the world champion checkers player chinook). It was developed a few years ago I think... However, since then there has been massive improvements that have gone into it.

-it uses actual AI unlike wilson. It will model your behaviour after 1000 or so hands and adapt to it.
-you can adjust the behaviour of the AI (both pre and post flop)
-Poker Academy uses a number of AI bots in the program... You can play a variety of different bots which use different AI programs and play differently and most of them are customizable. i.e. if you have a tough time playing against maniacs, you can make the AI behave this way and practice against it
-The limit AI is the strongest although the no limit AI is getting better.
-support for this program is amazing. They're constantly updating and adding features to the program. They also support research into AI to help improve their product.

See http://www.poki-poker.com/ for more details on it.

It is without any doubt far superior to wilson.
download the demo and see for yourself.

[deviouz]

I have both poker academy pro and wilsons software, but I must say, even tough wilsson is a bit old and look kinda trashy, its still better to learn with than poker academy

[AnilK]

I use Wilson. It could use a facelist and a modernized UI, but it is a great tool to practice offline.

AK

[Reef]

how many friggen spammers can we have in one thread? Seriously, this is ridiculous.

[BluffTHIS!]

Come on now! The three posters who responded have a combined total of 22 posts to their credit! Give them some respect!

[Woody09]

Seriously, I was hoping for testamonials not sales pitches. And those were bad sales pitches at that

[klange]

Poker Academy is newer and it does have REAL AI that allows the computer players to adapt and play well.

deviouz I'm curious why you think Wilson is better?

[PayToSee]

I'm curious if anyone has experience with AceSpades Hold'em software. It seems similar-ish to Wilson's, and their website even includes a (real?) quote from Sklansky saying their software is better than Wilson's.

Does anyone know, or have any comment on AceSpade vs Wilson?

Thanks!

[klange]

I'm just trying to understand why someone thinks it's better versus just the "it's better" answer. Something tangible.

It can't play as well, the graphics aren't as good, PA's newer and has had many more updates and it doesn't have as many features.

[Trainwreck]

Poker Academy Pro (formerly Poki Poker Academy) is the new leader, Wilson's is so pathetic to me now, it's so badly in need of a facelift and changes, they have taken way way way way way way too long for a new version, it's ridiculous.

>TW<

[Trainwreck]

I got it 6 months ago, they have since for free added SnG and NL to the same program.

It's gonna get more later in the year and the developers ACTUALLY interact actively in their forum.

Highly recommended and price is more than fair... Get the pro...

The new poker game with Danny N. is using their POKIBOT AI, and there have since been more bots added, and they make available to code to make your own if you are a programmer.

>TW<

[barongreenback]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, I was hoping for testamonials not sales pitches. And those were bad sales pitches at that

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm interested in this subject and am suprised it's difficult to get an answer. I think that use of software like this is not to common among posters at this site.

I've used Wilson as an analysis tool a lot and am a fan. However, I'm sure the process of setting up simulations could be a lot quicker and easier. Also it doesn't do NL and this is why I'm looking at Poki. Does Poki do 'stack the deck and run a million hands type stuff'?

Is there anyone out there who actually owns both Wilson and Poki?

[tek]

I've used Wilson Yournament Texas Hold em. However, after seeing the comparison between Poker Academy Pro and Wilson I am going to buy the Poker Academy Pro asap. I didn't know there were other programs out there until this thread.

I play live (not internet) $200 and $400 tournaments and have made the final table many times. I made $6k two weeks ago. After looking at the Poker Academy website, I feel I can afford to pop for the $130 bucks for the new software. I am always looking for a way to improve /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

software comparison (http://www.poki-poker.com/products/holdem_pro/compare.htm)

[barongreenback]

[ QUOTE ]
software comparison (http://www.poki-poker.com/products/holdem_pro/compare.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]
I've looked at this link and some of the info is wrong. A few features they list Wilson as having, it doesn't, and some they don't list, it does. This is not to say Poker Academy is not better software, I'm considering buying it myself, but this table doesn't help me much.

[trentk269]

I have Wilson Hold'em and Tournament Hold'em; I wouldn't use anything else.

[Crispy86]

I have a friend who has Wilson's Tournament Turbo Hold'em, and he showed it to me. He said it was very easy to beat, and hence didn't use it much. I am not a good player myself (yet), so I cannot comment, but had heard about Poker Academy and we downloaded the demo. He was extremely impressed, as was I, and I bought it. It is a very attractive program, with many many features, all of which I had read about in the computer software-realted chapter in Poker for Dummies by Lou Krieger, the first poker book I read. It has what I presume are numerous standard features, such as a hand evaluator, with probability to win, as well as the biased probability which changes the pure winning probability according to the probability another top hand was folded (obviously unlikely) and the opponents' pre-flop tightness, which can be regulated with a slider.

The graphs are fascinating though I admit I get little from them as yet, not knowing enough to make them useful. The graphics in all areas is ample, and attractive. GOing through the previous hands shows the cards received in one column and the respective flops in the other. On the side is a description of the action, and one can easily load the hand again to the table or place it in one of the analytical tools. Etc. etc. I found the Demo to do a very good job of showing off its main features, so don't just take people's word for it. Download it, and judge for yourself. There are several types of bots, all of which have different parameters that can be set and changed, giving many flavors.

The developers are very responsive in the forums, which is a very good sign as it means they seek to be in touch with the user base, and work from it.

A significant update, in features and bot strength, is in the works and announced sometime this year. Version 2.0 as it would be. The current version can be obtained for $99 but those who purchase now (I asked about this in their forums) will only pay the difference at worst from the full new version.

Frankly, I'm quite happy with it and heartily recommend it. Again, as said, just try the demo and see for yourself. It has some limitations, but it's enough to get an idea on what to expect.

Albert

[Trainwreck]

I own both, and like I said, Poker Academy Pro is much much much better IMHO.

Wilson's latest version is what 3 or 4 years old? What does that tell you?

Too many people here are obsessed with stats, I am not one of them.

PAP is extremely powerful, quit farting around and just buy it.

>TW<

[Lottery Larry]

Give us a real review when you've tried it out!

[krabby5]

[ QUOTE ]
What are people's opinions on the best wilson turbo type software. I am planning on buying something to practice without playing online and I am curious as to what the best programs are, if not wilson. Any opinions are greatly appreciated

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the tournament hold em one...not worth the cash

It is too easy to beat...I used to travel on audits a lot 2 years ago and I would bring this with....One night I won the WSOP format on medium difficulty...the VERY next night I won the same format on difficult setting...I'm guessing that of the 20 or so times I played the WSOP format, I won 4 times...

I didn't even play poker for real money 2 years ago..

Maybe I should turn pro?

I can't comment on the cash game version, though

[whitewidow]

Hi

Take the money for these programs.
Deposit it in a site play and play against real people.

peace out

[Jarco]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anyone out there who actually owns both Wilson and Poki?

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually own both Turbo Texas Hold'em by Wilson and Poker Academy Pro by BioTools...

My opinion of them both is that they are both different and they really can't be compared... apples and oranges...

Turbo Texas Hold'em has a simple look, but is configurable. I mean, in TTH, you can configure bet structure, blind structure, set rake, dealer tip, etc., all things important when playing in a casino. With TTH, you can also config a custom player to your playing style (opening hands, flop play, etc.) and run them in a high-speed sim to see how your style would hold up. Also, it has an advisor if you need it.
The drawbacks to the game is that it is limit only and the opponents don't have AI, if that really makes a difference.

Poker Academy Pro also has a lot of things going for it. First, it has Limit, No Limit, and Tournaments (albeit single table tourneys). It looks a lot better than Wilson's program, which is a plus if you're buying it for looks. It can keep a huge hand history, which a person can come back to to look and see where things went right (or wrong, in most cases) and learn from it. Also, in Limit, the bots that I have played against have proved difficult. Definitely a difference from Wilson. The drawbacks to this program is that you can't set a rake, can't configure the blinds, and really can't configure the betting structure like you can in Wilson's TTH. The last issue I have with PAP is this...

This is one of the Hand Histories from the program.

Look for the player with Aces and look at his action.

Poker Academy Pro #2991 [No Limit Table 4]
Apr 8, 2005 4:36:24 AM

1) Jarco * $4910 Js Jc
2) Strongbad $1885 7d 9d
3) Suricata $72 As Ah
4) Winston $1665 4c 3c
5) Enoch (sitting out)
6) Chuck Reese $540 Qc 2d
7) Al Inne (sitting out)
8) Nervous Ned (sitting out)
9) Yatima $928 Kd 3s
10) Trogdor (sitting out)

Strongbad posts $30 small blind
Suricata posts $60 big blind
Winston raises $187
Chuck Reese folds
Yatima folds
Jarco folds
Strongbad folds
Suricata folds

Winston wins $150 uncontested.


Anyway, both programs are different... I didn't list all of the features of both programs, I just listed the ones that are important to me. I don't know yet if either is worth the price (>$90 for each) especially for such small programs (<30MB for each) but I already bought them, so I'm gonna use them.


I hope this helps anyone who is considering buying either of these progs...

[ILoveShowGirls]

Ok I'm new here, but I do post over at BJ21.com from time to time, and I have looked a friends copy of Wilson and have PA pro. I am not shilling for either.

Both are good pieces of software and can be used to simulate whatever type of game you prefer, here are my opinions on them both:

Wilson TTH v5

Negatives:

Old looking graphics, (look better on Win2k than on XP for some reason ...)
Win 95 style full screen interface
Odd user interface.
Can't get Sidewinder Sid demo to work on XP, just crashes all the time.
You have to ask advisor to give advice.
If you want tournament or no/pot limit game, you have to buy a seperate piece of software.

Positives:

Advisor advice is generally tight agressive and will win money overall.
Easy to beat Mike the advisor in a challenge /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Play is very rapid.
Table can be configured in any way you like, if you want a table full of the hardest bots then knock yourself out.
Rake is simulated, which imho is very important for ring table players.

and so onto ...

Poker Academy Pro.

Negatives:
No manual
No tutorial
No explanation of how best to set up bots
Does not simulate rake at all.
Limitations on table set up.
Not as fast as Wilson
Bots play poorly on no limit and pot limit games
Not sure about the vaunted 'vexbot' I seem able to beat it consistently at limit heads up.
Multi table tournaments and satts not included.
Calculates stats in small bets per hour/100 rather than BB (ok not terribly bad but an unchangable annoyance imho.)

Positives:
Bots are very configurable once you know how.
multiple default tables provide some challenge before you get into custom tables and bots.
Very nice modern interface, with an almost party poker feel.
Pot and no limit games included as standard
Any table can be changed into a tournament table at any time.

Once you have figured out how to configure the bots, and it took me about an hour or so of browsing their forums, then you can get some really tough games out of PA pro, but its default settings are not much of a challenge imho.

The rake thing is an annoyance too, after all we can all be winners if we dont have to pay the rake, even the stoniest of rocks can profit at limit on the PA pro tables, so not a very accurate sim unless you happen to be a prop and get 100% rebate on your rake.

Overall from what I've seen, and hands up, I have only played a thousand or so hands on Wilson, but over 20,000 on Poker Academy, I would say Wilson edges it due to its accuracy at limit ring.
Having not seen Wilson's tournament version I can't comment on how good it is, but it's feature list is superior to PA pro, multi tables Satts, rebuys etc.

I would say that if $100 is all you had to spend, then you should not do what I did, and buy PA pro, you should instead buy TTHv5 and save up for the tournament game and sidewinder sid (if it will work on your OS) with your winnings. I know it is next on my shopping list.

Nb. I do hear on the PA forums that they are updating PA in the next 4-6 months and hope to add rake and multi tables etc. as the update should only cost me $20-30 I will post an update when I have played it.

Thank you for reading.

John H.

[barongreenback]

Thanks John and Jarco for the info.

I've tried the demo for PA pro and it seems good. It doesn't have the ability to run simulations with all computer players which is what I really value Wilson TTH for. Perhaps with adaptive AI this wouldn't really as useful anyway. If I'm going to spend time playing I might as well do it online but I might consider it later anyway esp. for HU play.

I have Wilson Tournament and I'm less keen to recommend this. It certainly doesn't play deep stacked NL and PL well although I think its better for smaller stacks. It also isn't very configurable. There are 3 levels of quality of play but you can't do anything about style. In this area it's almost as though this is written by different people to TTH (in which you can change just about everything). They probably set out to write a less serious program for more casual enjoyment but since they've probably already done much of the work it semms a pity not to put it in the program. There is a lot of choice with tournament structures though. I would like to be able to skip to different stages of the tourney. I also wish I could look at my opponents hole cards after the hand. I use software to learn rather than as a challenge and would like to use it as I choose. I mainly play cash games now so perhaps I'm not the best judge of this software.

In summary, if you're looking for a serious limit research tool then Wilson TTH is still the leader (although there are a lot of user interface improvements needed). If general play is what you're after or if you want NL then PA pro is probably better (and better value). It seems like PA pro will improve at a faster rate too.

For myself I think my game needs more real life play rather than computer work so I'll resist the temptation to get anymore toys for the moment. More profitable too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FredJones888]

poker academy is great and its much cheaper than the alternatives while still being realistic.

[Crispy86]

[ QUOTE ]
Once you have figured out how to configure the bots, and it took me about an hour or so of browsing their forums, then you can get some really tough games out of PA pro, but its default settings are not much of a challenge imho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you share what changes you made? You could post them at the PA forums if you prefer BTW, but I'm curious all the same, as I haven't really done any experimenting with the profiels, and would love to know what you did if you think they are improvements.