Ether Sucks, and Jay-Z Won

[FoxwoodsFiend]

Hey,
So I keep hearing that there are people out there who think Ether is a legitimately good dis on Jay-Z. I've always thought it was pathetic, ignorant, and just full of examples of Nas doing exactly what Jay-Z is accusing him of doing (pretending to be hard, speaking gibberish, etc.) Do any of you like the song? Do you know somebody who does? Do these people exist? If you do like it, would you mind telling me what part of it you think is so sweet because I just don't see it but everyone tells me that Nas is considered the winner between Nas and Jay-Z. Please explain this to me.

[nothumb]

Yes, I thought this was a good song. And a lot of the kids I work with (who are mostly big Jay-Z fans and think Nas has fallen off) agree that Nas killed it on that track. The kids are right.

NT

[FoxwoodsFiend]

Can you point me in the direction of a lyric or two? The only salvageable line I can find is "I Roc hoes ya'll roc fellas and now ya'll trying to take my spot fellas?" But that's hardly enough to constitute winning a battle. Don't just tell me the kids are right...WHY are the kids right?

[nothumb]

Sigh. There are lots of lines I like in that song. I tend to agree with those who say Nas was a way better story teller than cosmologist and thus his latest stuff is hard to hear.

"How much of Biggie's rhymes is gonna come outcha fat lips?"

...is one of my favorites, because it's also true.

NT

[Vince Young]

When KRS already made an album called "Blueprint"
First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big
Dick suckin lips, won't you let the late, great veteran live?

Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy

You ass, went from Jaz to hangin with Kane, to Irv, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own [censored]

[siccjay]

Welcome to 2003.

PS Nas won

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
When KRS already made an album called "Blueprint"


[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't matter
[ QUOTE ]

First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big


[/ QUOTE ]
He never said that. he said if he isnt' better than Big he's the closest one, which is true.
[ QUOTE ]
Dick suckin lips, won't you let the late, great veteran live?


[/ QUOTE ]
It's not up to Jay-Z whether a dead person lives, seeing as to how that is impossible and Jay-Z isn't actually Jehovah.
[ QUOTE ]

Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy


[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't see how making up rhymes that are not connected to reality can be a plus. I find the whole Dame [fill in the blank with something the guy doesn't call himself] thing to be convoluted
[ QUOTE ]
You ass, went from Jaz to hangin with Kane, to Irv, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see hwo hanging with different people is a mark against Jay-Z, and I think Jay-Z held his own on Renegade. He certainly did a better job than Nas would've if Em ever bothered to do a track with him.
Don't you just find all these lines to be silly and not really focusing on anything important? Also, doesn't the rest of the song having ignorant [censored] mitigate how good these lines are, or how good the song is?

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to 2003.

PS Nas won

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, nobody clued me in to the 2 year statute of limitations on discussing music.


P.S. Why?

[nothumb]

Apparently somebody has their Roc-a-Wear sweatpants pulled over their ears. Saying none of this stuff matters is ludicrous. What Nas is saying in the lines you don't understand is that Jay-z is basically a journeyman, a biter and a hanger-on for most of his career, that he has no loyalty or respect, etc. If you can't understand this I suggest you stop listening to rap as it's pretty obvious to everyone else. You don't have to agree with it but the point of the track is crystal clear.

Where are all these bizarre, wack lines you keep mentioning? So far people have said why the song is good and all you have done is allude to something wack in some other part of the song.

NT

[snowden719]

It's pretty obvious why jay lost, before the entire encounter had begun he lost, let me reference Nas for this one:
God's son across the belly
I prove you lost already

It's too bad for Jay but it is true that Nas has a tatoo on his stomach that says God's son, ergo, Jay has lost already. Even if jay is correct that Nas's bodyguard had a better flow on the masterpeice that is oochie wallie, it is all rendered meaningless by Nas's tatoo.

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When KRS already made an album called "Blueprint"


[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't matter
[ QUOTE ]

First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big


[/ QUOTE ]
He never said that. he said if he isnt' better than Big he's the closest one, which is true.
[ QUOTE ]
Dick suckin lips, won't you let the late, great veteran live?


[/ QUOTE ]
It's not up to Jay-Z whether a dead person lives, seeing as to how that is impossible and Jay-Z isn't actually Jehovah.
[ QUOTE ]

Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy


[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't see how making up rhymes that are not connected to reality can be a plus. I find the whole Dame [fill in the blank with something the guy doesn't call himself] thing to be convoluted
[ QUOTE ]
You ass, went from Jaz to hangin with Kane, to Irv, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see hwo hanging with different people is a mark against Jay-Z, and I think Jay-Z held his own on Renegade. He certainly did a better job than Nas would've if Em ever bothered to do a track with him.
Don't you just find all these lines to be silly and not really focusing on anything important? Also, doesn't the rest of the song having ignorant [censored] mitigate how good these lines are, or how good the song is?

[/ QUOTE ]
1) He's clearly calling him a dickrider. That doesn't matter, though, apparently.
2) "If I'm not better..." clearly implies that he thinks he's better.
3) Again, calling him a dickrider.
4) ........
5) Eminem's outshining of Jay-Z on Renegade was the greatest outshining in the history of rap.
6) Beef isn't determined by who makes the better songs, it's determined by who disses harder. Jay-Z simply couldn't come up with anything other than "you only have 1 good album."

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently somebody has their Roc-a-Wear sweatpants pulled over their ears. Saying none of this stuff matters is ludicrous. What Nas is saying in the lines you don't understand is that Jay-z is basically a journeyman, a biter and a hanger-on for most of his career, that he has no loyalty or respect, etc. If you can't understand this I suggest you stop listening to rap as it's pretty obvious to everyone else. You don't have to agree with it but the point of the track is crystal clear.

Where are all these bizarre, wack lines you keep mentioning? So far people have said why the song is good and all you have done is allude to something wack in some other part of the song.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this stuff matters but is outweighed by all the crap. Since you've asked me to document the crap lines, here they are:
[Chorus]
(I) [censored] with your soul like ether
(Will) Teach you the king you know you
(Not) "God's son" across the belly
(Lose) I prove you lost already
Worst chorus EVER. Why ether? Why not something less anachronistic? Honestly, does Nas think ether has some sort of hard-ass aspect to it? I also find "teach you the king you know you" to be an incoherent sentence. God's son across the belly-wow. Way to brag about a terrible tattoo. For some reason tattoos don't really seem to indicate anything about one's lyrical prowess nor are they worth noting. I prove you lost already-I have to assume this is through showing his God's Son tattoo, but I'd like to hear more from Nas about this. I really do think a song gets disqualified from being decent when the chorus is incoherent and pathetic.
"I embrace y'all with napalm
Blows up, no guts, left chest, face gone
How could Nas be garbage?"
Nas could be garbage by randomly listing miltary tactics that he'll use to prove he's hard in response to a song that's calling him out for being a soft middle class pussy who's not really tough at all.
"Started cockin up my weapon, slowly loadin up this ammo
To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle"
Once again, Nas responds to allegations of being a pussy by
threatening to kill people. Way to front like you're hard Nas.

"Rockefeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter
And that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?
Put it together, I rock hoes, y'all rock fellas"
Rockefeller did not die of AIDS: "Just five months later, in December 1981, it was clear that the disease affected other population groups, when the first cases of PCP were reported in injecting drug users. At the same time the first case of AIDS was documented in the UK."
http://www.avert.org/his81_86.html
Rockefeller did not live until 1981. Also, even if he were right (which he's not) implying that Jay-Z's label is named after a guy who died of AIDS makes Jay-Z gay is terribly ignorant. Straight people die of AIDS too. So even if he weren't ignorant, he'd still be ignorant.
"Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept your face in her puss
What you think, you gettin girls now 'cause of your looks?
Ne-gro please
You no mustache havin, with whiskers like a rat"
Calling another man out on his appearance is more indicative of one's homosexuality than is naming one's record labelafter a 19th century oil mogul.
"Nah, I'm tryna' kick the [censored] you need to learn though
That ether, that [censored] that make your soul burn slow"
Once again, this song is absolute crap just because of the choice of ether. Honestly, it's so indicative of the incoherent crap that Nas puts out that he for some reason deploys the great weapon of ether to use as his theme for the song. You just shouldn't be allowed to get away with this crap and have anybody say you won the battle.
So, while I can point you to some other lines that are just weak or not true I think the main beef I have with Ether is that his references to Ether are just plain stupid, which makes the chorus suck, and his constant attempts to pretend that he's considering violent attacks on Jay-Z.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
5) Eminem's outshining of Jay-Z on Renegade was the greatest outshining in the history of rap.
6) Beef isn't determined by who makes the better songs, it's determined by who disses harder. Jay-Z simply couldn't come up with anything other than "you only have 1 good album."

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are very true.

Jay-Z's the better rapper. Nas won though -- his disses were harder, and Jay-Z's were pretty weak (as mentioned, mostly just "you only have one good album").

I love Jay-Z and don't care much for Nas, and even I can see this is true.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When KRS already made an album called "Blueprint"


[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't matter
[ QUOTE ]

First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big


[/ QUOTE ]
He never said that. he said if he isnt' better than Big he's the closest one, which is true.
[ QUOTE ]
Dick suckin lips, won't you let the late, great veteran live?


[/ QUOTE ]
It's not up to Jay-Z whether a dead person lives, seeing as to how that is impossible and Jay-Z isn't actually Jehovah.
[ QUOTE ]

Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy


[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't see how making up rhymes that are not connected to reality can be a plus. I find the whole Dame [fill in the blank with something the guy doesn't call himself] thing to be convoluted
[ QUOTE ]
You ass, went from Jaz to hangin with Kane, to Irv, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see hwo hanging with different people is a mark against Jay-Z, and I think Jay-Z held his own on Renegade. He certainly did a better job than Nas would've if Em ever bothered to do a track with him.
Don't you just find all these lines to be silly and not really focusing on anything important? Also, doesn't the rest of the song having ignorant [censored] mitigate how good these lines are, or how good the song is?

[/ QUOTE ]
1) He's clearly calling him a dickrider. That doesn't matter, though, apparently.
2) "If I'm not better..." clearly implies that he thinks he's better.
3) Again, calling him a dickrider.
4) ........
5) Eminem's outshining of Jay-Z on Renegade was the greatest outshining in the history of rap.
6) Beef isn't determined by who makes the better songs, it's determined by who disses harder. Jay-Z simply couldn't come up with anything other than "you only have 1 good album."

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess we just disagree about the Biggie and Eminem points.
So as far as I can tell, the main good thing about Ether is that it calls Jay-Z a dickrider. I guess I missed all that because of all the rambling in between. Still, does that get Nas off the hook for the crap that fills the rest of the song? Also, if you listen to Blueprint 2 Jay-Z clearly goes after Nas for being incomprehensible and a fake prophet. I don't know why calling somebody out for
a) pretending to be a thug when he "witnessed it from his folk's pad"
b) Putting out crap album after crap album and being a nonsense artist
c) Being confused as an artist with no vision
isn't "going as hard" as just calling a guy a dickrider and ugly. But at least now I see what Nas was at least trying to do.

[nothumb]

Dude you are really reaching here.

And I seriously doubt the Roc-a-Fella Nas is referring to is the 19th century oil mogul, it's some hood cat IIRC.

Also, you're pretty much saying that most of the staples of battle raps over the years (questioning manhood, threatening to kill people, making jokes about appearance and sexuality, etc) are irrelevent. Think for a second and STFU already, you are obviously just covering your ears and screaming "Nas sucks" as long and loud as you can.

"Illmatic" and "It Was Written" are both better than anything Jay-Z ever put out. I think that in the last 5 years Jay-Z is unquestionably the better artist, and like I said, Nas does get unintelligible at times. But it's ridiculous how people forget that he is maybe the most influential rapper of the 90's other than Pac and dropped two absolute classics, and that most of his albums since have still been better than 95% of the commercial crap you hear on the radio.

NT

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Ether Sucks, and Jay-Z Won

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not really news. that rap rivalry was never a fair one. in every aspect jay z not only had a headstart but also had greater innate talent. if you don't believe the latter, listen to the marketplace failure that was reasonable doubt.

it was/is one of the few rap albums that failed because it was too good for its target demographic. songs like 22 2's, cashmere thoughts and regrets are simply on another level lyrically and musically that nas never really got to.

besides, even if the rap rivalry was somewhat close, which it wasn't, jay z excels in every field he enters. most succeessful product RBK ever produced. fastest growing clothing line ever when it first came out. wildly successful private record label etc.

not that i don't like nas, but that's like saying easy e and tupac were a famous rap rivalry. BIG and tupac were for sure, and they both had incredible talent, but easy was a mere shadow of tupac, as nas is to jay z.

fim

[siccjay]

lmao...ok

[snowden719]

if Jay had said at the end of takeover, "Oh by the way, Nas likes to fellate men" would he have won the rap battle? It seems that the only reason that Nas beat jay was because Nas calls Jay gay a lot. That's not a good reason to think someone won, do you see why?

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I don't mean to be blindly repeating that Nas sucks. I'm not saying that the common tropes of beef are stupid. I'm saying Nas tries pulling them off in a silly way in Ether. I personally like Reasonable Doubt better than Illmatic, but I agree that Illmatic is one of the greatest albums in rap history. I'm not knocking all of Nas, I'm just saying that after Illmatic he definitely dropped off and Ether is part of that.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]

it was/is one of the few rap albums that failed because it was too good for its target demographic. songs like 22 2's, cashmere thoughts and regrets are simply on another level lyrically and musically that nas never really got to.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fim, I find it funny that you mentioned some of the weaker songs on Reasonable Doubt (though they are still very good, mind you). When i think of R.D. I think of Dead Presidents II, Can I Live, Brooklyn's Finest, and Feelin' It before I think of Cashmere Thoughts and Regrets. But either way, I agree with most of what you're saying as long as we're willing to pretend that Illmatic-Nas and post-Illmatic Nas are two different people, because Illmatic-Nas if he kept rapping would have been a good rival to Jay-Z.

[Matty]

You Tae-Bo Ho - funniest line

The part about being called ugly and being afraid to smile as a kid was probably the harshest part.

I don't think either won- or could have won, but Nas winning certainly makes for a better storyline.

[Mr biggums]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not knocking all of Nas, I'm just saying that after Illmatic he definitely dropped off and Ether is part of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Stillmatic, It was Written, and Lost Tapes is dropping off then I wish every artist would "drop off" like Nas.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
If Stillmatic, It was Written, and Lost Tapes is dropping off then I wish every artist would "drop off" like Nas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. It Was Written is an absolute classic and the other two are strong records. Illmatic and It Was Written are arguably the best 1-2 debut records in rap history.

NT