HU - Heads Up play - Calling standards [Archive]

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 12:24 AM

I've been focusing more on my ITM play, and HU play. As stated here many times, I am very satisified with my ITM % (44%), but frankly, I'm less satisfied with my ROI (26%). This disatisfaction is primarily due to my poor ITM distribution (500+ observations).

1st 12.2%
2nd 13.0%
3rd 19.7%

Well, I've been changing a lot of my standards of pushing hands, and most importantly CALLING hands. These are my statistically inisiginificant results the last 5 days.

1st 17.4%
2nd 11.9%
3rd 13.8%

So, without going too deep into my stats, I'm curious...

What are your calling standards in heads up play? How low do you go?

Part 1. Assume equal stacks
Part 2. Assume you have victim covered 3:1
Part 3. Assume you're covered 3:1

Edit: Assume blinds are 300/600
Edit: Answer your question based on your level of buyin (please provide). I don't think table "reads" matter this much when the blinds are this high. Prove me wrong.

citanul

03-21-2005, 12:27 AM

looks ilke you're figuring something out.

when you do, tell me. i suck at itm distribution in general.

but i'm good at drinking.

i like to call with medium big aces, most pairs, big kings, and sometimes QJ or QT. it depends a lot on what the stacks/blinds are.

citanul

eastbay

03-21-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]

What are your calling standards in heads up play? How low do you go?

Part 1. Assume equal stacks
Part 2. Assume you have victim covered 3:1
Part 3. Assume you're covered 3:1

[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon, bro. Gives us some context to work with. There's no one size fits all formula. You've left out some of the most important things to think about.

eastbay

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i like to call with medium big aces, most pairs, big kings, and sometimes QJ or QT. it depends a lot on what the stacks/blinds are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was gonna rail u a little, but I see I need to edit my post for the blinds...

citanul

03-21-2005, 12:31 AM

indeed.

how tight your idiotic opponent is a big one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

citanul

Degen

03-21-2005, 12:33 AM

first thing i can tell you is your bubble play is probably very weak-tight...you are trying for 3rd, not the win.

when its 4-5 handed and the blinds are big, you should be willing to risk all of your chips in order to become a huge stack and position yourself for the win. your ITM will suffer but your 1st and 2nds will go WAY UP, along with your ROI.

Degen

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
first thing i can tell you is your bubble play is probably very weak-tight...you are trying for 3rd, not the win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how you can "tell" me this. I know I come across as weak-tight on this board, but generally speaking, that's in early play. I'm a vicious tiger when it's 4 handed. So, if you're looking to help me diagnose my play a little more, keep better tabs on me.

Anyway, again, back to the original question. Thanks for taking this off course.

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
how tight your idiotic opponent is a big one

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem, AT BEST, this 'read' on your opponent will have an effect on one hand. erego, I don't know how important table reads are, with regard to calling standards when the blinds are this high. I'm open to discussion on this.

Degen

03-21-2005, 12:41 AM

as for calling standards...it completely depends upon my opponent.

i usually move-in every time i'm on the SB...if they move-in from theirs OFTEN i will call with any ace, any medium king, any PP or any two paint cards

if they fold, or limp/fold (when i go all-in hehe) from their SB a lot-and usually fold when i go all-in from the SB, then i'll tighten up A LOT to their raises as their likely to have a stong holding, but more importantly: my stealing equity is so high when i have the option of opening.

another option that i did not present is that i usually go over the top (all-in) of every min-raise.

all of these are assuming equal stacks.

sounds crazy i'm sure, but it works and the blinds are so damned big at this point that i'm just anxious to roll the dice or steal all the blinds that i can, one or the other.

Degen

Degen

03-21-2005, 12:43 AM

its all about your stealing equity when they are in the blinds...why call with a weak hand when they are SO likely to fold when you open...i've played against opponents that fold 3/4's of their SB's and fold to almost every raise of theirs. it just makes not sense to call an all-in or a big raise from this player with AJo or 77.

Degen

Degen

03-21-2005, 12:46 AM

i didn't mean from analyzing your posts...i'm new here.

what i meant was that this distribution suggests your are playing very weak-tight on the bubble.

i could be wrong, if i am then i'd have to say that you have horrible luck/cards 3-handed and that once your sample reaches 2k or so, this should even out.

Degen

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 12:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
it just makes not sense to call an all-in or a big raise from this player with AJo or 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this is weak-tight. You're talking headsup here right?

Degen

03-21-2005, 12:56 AM

yes, heads-up. its not WEAK tight...its just TIGHT.

if a player is going to freely give me all of his blinds and they are at the 250/500 level or so, i will gladly fold to his raise.

though his raise is only likely to happen once, or maybe twice while we are heads up, because his raising standards are so high.

please note that i said that this is ONLY against a very tight heads up player...one who folds to most of my raises and who folds his SB often.

Degen

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 01:01 AM

Degen, just some background about me and my play.

I am no pro. I don't claim to be one. Since Dec 4th I started keeping stats. I've played about 1700 SNGs since that time.

My first 500 SNGs, my HU strategy was just what you described - uberaggressive if I was first to act, reraising allin from a mini-raise, etc. My stats were incredible. Something like 20% 1st place finishes. Then Jauary hit. My most challenging 4 week period of my mini-poker career. Reflecting back, I have now assumed that my success was more due to positive variance than 'solid play.'

In February, all I did was study and play with a serious focus on folding equity. My ITM % shot through the roof. My bubble play had become the serious focus of my game.

Now I'm focusing on ITM play. And, I think it's a serious leak to be folding hands like AJo or 77 in headsup play. I was thinking about calling with hands like K5, and you're suggesting I fold a made hand or AJ??? We are looking at this scenario from two completely different perspectives.

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 01:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
please note that i said that this is ONLY against a very tight heads up player...one who folds to most of my raises and who folds his SB often.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I give in. You're right. If someone folds to all (most) of my raises, you have just described correct play. Is this type of player common for you? It's not for me.

citanul

03-21-2005, 01:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how tight your idiotic opponent is a big one

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem, AT BEST, this 'read' on your opponent will have an effect on one hand. erego, I don't know how important table reads are, with regard to calling standards when the blinds are this high. I'm open to discussion on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh. a friend and i have been working on playing in fashions that involve seeing some flops and also miniraising the [censored] out of opponents who are terrible.

the point being: against a good opp, you can get more of an advantage than against one who is good/observante. so these miniraises for steals, seeing flops, etc, work out good.

against a good player, you have to sort of realize that they play well, and the best you can do is perfectly, and you're only picking up EV on the edges there, esp eince there's little difference between teh two on short stacks heads up.

ok, i don't even know what i wrote. time to play some 50s.

citanul

Degen

03-21-2005, 01:06 AM

'positive variance' haha another way of saying you had a nice lucky rush

i've posted it twice now, i said that that was the strategy against a SUPER TIGHT player heads-up...this only happens maybe 1 in 4 HU matches. the other 3 of 4 i'm calling or moving in with AJo and 77.

it's not worth it to me to make a call with a hand that is at best a coin-flip when i have a HUGE edge over this person because they play too tight.

Degen

Degen

03-21-2005, 01:07 AM

happens enough to make me start rolling on the floor laughing at how easy the match is /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Degen

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 01:12 AM

I give up. I'm not interested in arguing.

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
C'mon, bro. Gives us some context to work with. There's no one size fits all formula. You've left out some of the most important things to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some context. Assume you are slightly better than your opponent, but he/she is not a rock.

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 01:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
happens enough to make me start rolling on the floor laughing at how easy the match is

[/ QUOTE ]

Degen, you didn't post on ZebraAss' post, I'd appreciate knowing a little more about you. See Sit-N-Go Buyin status (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1966460&page=1&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

Mr_J

03-21-2005, 01:38 AM

Time to get eastbays calculator out.

Mr_J

03-21-2005, 01:53 AM

So they are aggressive HU and will push most cards from SB??

Maybe any pair, any ace, any K/Q with a mid kicker, JT+.

If they push every time from SB maybe add weak Ks and Qs, J with decent kicker, T9+.

I don't follow any guidelines or anything so this is just my best guess at what my calling range might be.

I think I've been playing tighter than this lately, but I think my overall sng game from 5-6 handed on has been a bit too tight lately.

microbet

03-21-2005, 02:29 AM

I know you gave up but, here are my thoughts anyway.

As far as buyin goes, I'm in the $22s. I generally think, especially by the time you are HU, you should have a more accurate read than just making an assumption about how they play because of what buyin you are in. However, obvi when you hit the $55s and get more chips, things change a little here. That said, I would caution people from assuming that a few folds makes for someone who can be run over. People do get dealt 24, 25, 37 in a row sometimes. I'm just saying, I understand why you will toss good hands against a weak player, but it should take a pretty solid read to toss AJ or 77 heads up.

Part I - you are both at 7-8 BBs
A8+, 55+, maybe KQ

Part II - you at about 6 BB, him at about 2
Any Ace, KQ-9 maybe, QJ, any PP

Part III - you at about 2 BB, him at about 6
Any Q. Suited connectors above 45. Connectors above 89.

Scuba Chuck

03-21-2005, 10:50 AM

Degen, it has just dawned on me that you've been posting here for all of 6 days. Guess I am the fool.

Your advice here has been insightful. If we had more posters like you, this forum might really 'blast' off.