Good Laydown, Or Stupid? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 08:17 PM

After 30 hands, SB is 19/10 with postflop aggr of 1,0,1. Good laydown, or should I haved called down?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, MP3 folds, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero folds.

PokerBob

03-20-2005, 08:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
After 30 hands, SB is 19/10 with postflop aggr of 1,0,1. Good laydown, or should I haved called down?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, MP3 folds, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

call down.

shant

03-20-2005, 08:21 PM

I would call this down.

afk

03-20-2005, 08:26 PM

I usually call down. It's hard to say whether he would 3bet QQ or JJ preflop as we only have 30 hands with him, but you're ahead of AQ and you've got outs against QJ.

CallMeIshmael

03-20-2005, 08:28 PM

I think you should call, closing the action at 11-1.

It is not unthinkable that he had AQ (especially AdQd), which you are ahead of, and you have 8 outs against two pair. (I would think he has JQ here a lot) The only hand you are really in trouble against is a set.

I call any non Q river.

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 08:31 PM

For those of you who noted that I have 8 outs against QJ, would you call the turn but fold the river UI?

Moozh

03-20-2005, 08:37 PM

You have to call the turn looking for the board to pair. If you want to fold the river unimproved, I think that's ok.

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 08:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to call the turn looking for the board to pair. If you want to fold the river unimproved, I think that's ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree the turn fold was terrible. I was 4 tabling and missed my hidden outs. Ugh.

As for folding UI, do you think that is better than calling down?

Moozh

03-20-2005, 08:43 PM

Ugh, the pot is huge, so calling is probably better. You're not expecting to win much though. You can't like the open bet on the turn after your flop cap.

shant

03-20-2005, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I usually call down. It's hard to say whether he would 3bet QQ or JJ preflop as we only have 30 hands with him, but you're ahead of AQ and you've got outs against QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
The SB didn't 3-bet preflop, which makes this an easier call-down.

afk

03-20-2005, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually call down. It's hard to say whether he would 3bet QQ or JJ preflop as we only have 30 hands with him, but you're ahead of AQ and you've got outs against QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
The SB didn't 3-bet preflop, which makes this an easier call-down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, yeah I just saw that. Regardless I'd probably still call down.

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The SB didn't 3-bet preflop, which makes this an easier call-down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think so. Turns out they both has AQ. Which proves I should have called.

It's all about results-oriented poker.

Schizo

03-20-2005, 10:20 PM

Gamming Mouse, you need to realize that stats can be very misleading. You need something more than PT w/ 30 hands to make that kind of a laydown.

Michael Davis

03-20-2005, 10:25 PM

BLECH

sthief09

03-20-2005, 10:37 PM

after 30 hands, VPIP is probably accurate +/- 7, PFR +/- 10, and AF +/- 1.5, which is A LOT. you have no read on this guy other than that he's probably tight.

also, you often have hidden outs. he rarely has QQ, he usually doesn't have JJ, and he can always have 66. he'll usually have QJs and sometimes QJo. you have enough outs (>= 4) to continue.

sthief09

03-20-2005, 10:57 PM

oh, and he could SO easily have AQ. forgot to mention that

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 11:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Gamming Mouse, you need to realize that stats can be very misleading. You need something more than PT w/ 30 hands to make that kind of a laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i did realize that. which makes this all the more shameful.

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 11:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BLECH

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you, thank you. i'll be here all week.

sthief09

03-20-2005, 11:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BLECH

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you, thank you. i'll be here all week.

[/ QUOTE ]

you missed a fantastically cheesy pun opportunity

Michael Davis

03-20-2005, 11:22 PM

"cheesy"

Nice.

-Michael

admiralfluff

03-20-2005, 11:29 PM

This is probably your best ever laydown.

But seriously, I haven't read all the responses to this thread yet, and I'm sure what I'm about to say has been well covered, but just in case:

You are often up against a set, which you have 2 outs to beat, but up against 2 pair enough, which you have 6 more outs to beat, that you should call the turn. Fold the river unimproved.

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BLECH

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you, thank you. i'll be here all week.

[/ QUOTE ]

you missed a fantastically cheesy pun opportunity

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm ashamed to admit i still do not see it.

sthief09

03-20-2005, 11:34 PM

"thank you, thank you. I'll be here all weak"

FANTASTICALLY CHEESY PUN

gaming_mouse

03-20-2005, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"thank you, thank you. I'll be here all weak"

FANTASTICALLY CHEESY PUN

[/ QUOTE ]

nice