A hand with a few different questions [Archive]

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Alexthegreat

03-20-2005, 08:14 AM

I don't have PT, so I don't have any stats on this dude...obviously it's his first hand at the table

Preflop: do I 3-bet or call??

Flop: Standard

Turn: He stop n goes, I raise with the intention of checking behind on any river except a J...Does this sound good?? Or do I have a value bet?? Or should I not raise the turn??

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 (poster) raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, MP2 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Alexthegreat

03-20-2005, 06:29 PM

bump...anyone??

Nick C

03-20-2005, 06:38 PM

Preflop: I know the raise is coming from a poster and could be a lighter raise than average (since MP2 is raising at a discount), but I probably would have folded, actually. The raise does come from MP, after someone else has already limped.

Put the poster in the CO and make it an open-raise, and I'd probably 3-bet.

Anyway, maybe AJo is worth playing, under the circumstances of the posted hand, but I hope you're not routinely playing AJo versus preflop raises.

Postflop: I might have just called the turn, though BB's presence in the hand does make me kind of want to raise instead. The thing is, though, MP2 has now bet into multiple opponents twice with an ace on the board, so I'm thinking he probably has something other than, say, TT. And unless he'll raise any ace after posting preflop, there just aren't that many top pair hands you're beating (AK and AQ are a concern, and you are now reverse-dominated by A9, though MP2 might have gone for a checkraise with that). I guess he could have just picked up a gutshot with A7 or A8 (or even 88 or 77), though.

On the river, taking the free showdown seems sensible to me. In the end, you got to showdown for the same price as you most likely would have if you had just started calling down on the turn.

I would have hesitated to raise the turn out of fear of facing another stop-n-go or a 3-bet, and against an unknown I wouldn't know how to interpret either of those things and probably would have called, though I'd suspect that what I was most likely doing was paying off. But, to be honest, I'm really sure what's best on the turn (or preflop, for that matter), so let's see what others say.

Alexthegreat

03-20-2005, 06:47 PM

Yeah, I have a tough time dealing with stop n goes...half the time it ends up being a crap hand like a PP lower than the board, and the other half it ends up being a monster...I felt like this time would be the PP, as I thought I would have heard from a better A again on the flop....

AJo is another thing...This is unrelated to the hand here, but should I be raising this UTG?? or folding??...I should be open raising from MP and later I assume...and pretty much never calling raises with it?? 3-betting or folding, right?? Thanks....

afk

03-20-2005, 06:48 PM

Preflop I usually fold. Since you made it to the flop I think the raise is fine. When he pulls the stop and go I'd probably just call down.

LinusKS

03-20-2005, 06:52 PM

Preflop: I don't know. Maybe somebody smarter than me can answer. I know cold-calling is frowned on, but I don't think I can bring myself to fold my AJ to the poster, and I generally don't 3-bet AJ pre-flop, so I probably do the same.

After the flop I play the same. I think raising the turn is right, for the reasons already stated - you get rid of the BB, and you hopefully get a free showdown.

Nick C

03-20-2005, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
AJo is another thing...This is unrelated to the hand here, but should I be raising this UTG?? or folding??...I should be open raising from MP and later I assume...and pretty much never calling raises with it?? 3-betting or folding, right?? Thanks....

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the people on this forum raise AJo UTG. That's usually what I do, too. And I don't think folding AJo in 2/4 is a very good idea. You should at least limp. (But, like I said, I usually raise.)

When it's raised before the action gets to me and I have AJo, my default play is to fold. If I have a read that the PFR raises light, then I start thinking about 3-betting instead. If the pot is already multiway and a LAG raises, I'm not sure what's best. (Well, if a 3-bet would drive out some of the limpers, then I like that plan.) I tend to just muck in that situation and wait for a better spot, though. But that could be a time when cold-calling would be all right. I'm not sure.

afk

03-20-2005, 08:02 PM

Alexthegreat

03-20-2005, 08:05 PM

This could be a stupid question, but I play on Empire....

This is a party skin, right, so does that mean that the same players on party are on empire??

afk

03-20-2005, 08:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This could be a stupid question, but I play on Empire....

This is a party skin, right, so does that mean that the same players on party are on empire??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Party, Empire, Pokernow and a few others (multipoker? intertops?) all share tables. Though things like bonuses and tournies differ between skins.

kurosh

03-20-2005, 08:17 PM

3-bet PF. The way you played it, I don't know if I would raise the turn but I'm kind of a pussy when people lead out. I'd call the turn, call the river UI and bet if checked to.

Moozh

03-20-2005, 08:23 PM

3-bet or fold preflop. Cold-calling is bad. What happens when you miss your pair and he bets out? If you three-bet pre-flop, he's less likely to bet out, so even if you miss, you're in decent shape. Cold-calling pre-flop is bad!

Your hand is good enough to go to showdown, thus I'd usually just call after the stop-n-go. What happens if he 3-bets you on the turn? That's a tough fold to make and might not be correct even if you're behind.

Alexthegreat

03-20-2005, 08:32 PM

I guess the consensus is to 3-bet preflop...

If he 3-bets the turn I'm fine with folding...I don't think he's 3-betting anything I beat...I don't even think he's 3-betting AK or AQ...I thought this was a good place to take a free showdown...

crunchy1

03-20-2005, 08:43 PM

Playing Party (and skins) 2/4 and NOT owning PokerTracker is BIG TIME -EV!!

Alexthegreat

03-20-2005, 08:58 PM

Really??

Does it make that much of a difference?? I play mostly live so I've never needed it, but now I'm going to start playing a lot more on the net, so if it makes a huge difference, I guess I'll get it....

Could you guys weigh in on this?? I know that some posters swear by it, but it seems to me that if I am a thinking player and good note taker, I can make the same correct decisions...

ie...does anyone think poker tracker is a crutch..?

Ralf

03-20-2005, 09:23 PM

Poker Tracker is not a crutch, it's a cyber leg with laser beam and rocket launcher.