PP 100 NL Hand

[KeithF40]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($105.85)
BB ($110.85)
UTG ($62.4)
UTG+1 ($114.65)
MP1 ($103.5)
MP2 ($194.5)
CO ($107.65)
Button ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $3.

Flop: ($9) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($9) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $8</font>, Hero calls $4.

River: ($25) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $15</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $40

[tbach24]

Either fold the turn of block the river. Preferably fold the turn.

[KeithF40]

What does block the river mean. Did you find anything wrong with betting the flop.

[tbach24]

Blocking the river is putting a small bet disguised as a value bet/weak lead. It's purpose is to get a cheap showdown.

I'm kind of on the fence with that flop. On one hand, they may have a low PP and just check/fold. On the other, it's very draw-heavy. So, I'd think that checking is fine, as you will have no clue whether he's slowplaying or drawing. That's a problem with being OOP.

[KeithF40]

Do you mean the turn cause I really didnt think about betting the flop at all. Also what do you consider a small bet in relation to the size of the pot and I also assume that if Im raised then I should just fold.

[tbach24]

Betting the turn is fine.

A blocking bet should be the least that you're opponent will call and not raise. However, if that bet is something like the size of the pot, then making one is worthless. I think that a blocking bet on that river was necessary to prevent him from bluffing a busted flush draw. But folding the turn would be better if you are going to check/fold the river.

[KeithF40]

I wasnt planning on check folding the river as I expected a smaller bet for some reason. I thought he might be bluffing on the turn so thats why I called but I never knew about the blocking bet on the river. That seems like a really good strategy as normally if I think someone is bluffing Ill put in a good value bet of 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot instead of a blocking bet. And how much exactly is a blocking bet. Thanks.

[tbach24]

Yeah, blocking bets is one of the most useful tools that I have learned for river play.

[KeithF40]

How much should the blocking bet be. And in that case if I put one in and he miniraised me what should I do.

[tbach24]

A blocking bet should be the least he will play, but not for a raise. Also, unless it's a small amount of BB's, I'm always folding to a raise w/o a read. Usually mine are about 1/2-3/4 pot sized bets. Sometimes less, but rarely more. They should be disguised in an observant game by making them the same as value bets or weak leads, but in your average online game where the turnover rate is so large, I wouldn't worry about it.

[KeithF40]

Yeah when I play online I dont pay attention to disguising my plays at all and I play a very straight forward game anyway so I dont have to worry about that anyway. How come the blocking bet shouldnt bet smaller like a quarter to half the pot since you can just check and call probably spending the same amount of money with no risk of being raised and costing you more money especially if you plan on calling a small raise.

[tbach24]

It probably could be. I think the bigger the pot, the smaller the bet. Obviously the smaller the pot, the bigger the bet. A lot depends on the player obviously as well.

[KeithF40]

True. Tough thing online is that you hardly ever know the players.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasnt planning on check folding the river as I expected a smaller bet for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

his river bet wasn't that big in relation to the pot. it's about what your blocking bet should have been. i'd call that bet every time.

on the river you can take one of two lines if you think they may be bluffing, but you're not completely sure.

1) blocking bet, fold to a raise - a river raise is almost never a busted draw, especially at SSNL.

2) check, call any bet - check to induce a bluff. a busted draw will often bet out when checked to on the river. depending on the bet, it usually only needs to be a bluff a small percentage of the time for this line to be +EV.

deciding which one to use is tricky, i think, but generally i base it on the size of the pot. for a small pot, i'll check/call; for a big pot, i'd use a blocking bet.

hopefully some other posters will tell me if i've got anything wrong here...question: i know sklansky says that when you check to induce a bluff that you MUST call, but what if the bet amount is just completely outrageous, say 2x or 3x the pot? i guess you're still supposed to call, but it increases the percentage of time that the bet has to be a bluff in order for it to be +EV...hrm...

[KeithF40]

You said youd call everytime. Do you mean that you would of called on the river instead of folding like I did or do you mean you would of called in the other players position everytime if I put in a blocking bet but if that is the case how do you know that because you dont know what cards he has.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
2) check, call any bet - check to induce a bluff. a busted draw will often bet out when checked to on the river. depending on the bet, it usually only needs to be a bluff a small percentage of the time for this line to be +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think he would min-raise on the flop with just a draw?

[KeithF40]

He miniraised on the turn not the flop.

[zaxx19]

) blocking bet, fold to a raise - a river raise is almost never a busted draw, especially at SSNL.


Muhahahah Muhahahah I should post some hands....

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
You said youd call everytime. Do you mean that you would of called on the river instead of folding like I did or do you mean you would of called in the other players position everytime if I put in a blocking bet but if that is the case how do you know that because you dont know what cards he has.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would have called the river bet if i had been in your spot. shrug.

[KeithF40]

Why would you of called the bet in my position. He put in a bet of 3/5 the pot which definently looked like a value bet and the raise on the turn looked like he had something.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you of called the bet in my position. He put in a bet of 3/5 the pot which definently looked like a value bet and the raise on the turn looked like he had something.

[/ QUOTE ]

you really have no idea what he has because of how you played the hand. you showed a lot of weakness there by checking the flop after the PF raise and then betting less than half the pot on the turn. he could be raising with absolutely anything...

preflop is really the only street that i think you played correctly. you should have followed up on the flop with a bet. heads up you should bet this just about everytime (more for metagame considerations). if you're against 2 players you might consider checking if they're either extremely LAG or huge calling stations, but generally you should still follow up with a bet.

on the turn, you hit your hand. bet the pot, if he raises your pot sized bet, then you might consdier slowing down..it depends on your read.

i really don't know what i'd do on your river because i wouldn't have gotten there in the same way, but i still think you need to call. the weakness you've shown makes me think you're looking at a bluff a large enough percentage of the time to make calling correct.

[KeithF40]

Good advice I think I understand now. The only thing is that it seems that my semi bluffs never work at this low limit online. Everytime the flop comes without an A or a K when I raise preflop with AK my flop bet never works. Also what do you recommend betting on the flop there. Also the flop looked a little scary and I didnt want to bet into it.

[meow_meow]

You can go ahead and fold to the raise on the turn. Either you are drawing dead or to 3 outs.

If it was me, I'd have pot the flop. Probably would have lost more than you did...

[AncientPC]

Bet the flop, bet the turn, fold to a reraise.

[KeithF40]

How much would you bet on the flop and the turn. It just seems that every reasonable preflop hand would either be ahead of me or would be drawing to a good hand. Only AK without them both being diamonds would probably fold on the flop. The other player could of had pocket unders and would also fold then too but I also think that that player would just check and fold the entire hand so after the flop and possibly turn I would probably be able to pick up on that or maybe put them on AK or AQ which would call until the river with a draw anyway. Anyway the board looked really scary and the only hands I would be able to push off on the flop are AK without two diamonds and pocket unders.