quick one

[1800GAMBLER]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls.

River: (9 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

[jgorham]

I think this is a good spot to check and induce a bluff from the missed spade draw. By checking you might even get a better T to check behind, saving you a bit of money (though thats doubtful). It just looks to me like his flop bet was a flush draw or better T, since he didn't raise the J on the turn.

[TheTimeIsUp]

I wouldn't c/r the river. Check it, and call a bet. I only see a higher ten betting you here, or a missed stright/flush draw.

[astroglide]

i would fold this one preflop, but if i were handed my cards back i'd bet the flop

[mike l.]

check and hope he checks a better ten behind on the river of bluffs or value bets something worse. basically youre toast most of the time here. the guy has a J and was being cute or timid or both on the turn. or he has a flush draw and he wont call. check that river, main reason being he might naively check behind with a better ten (which he will call with 100% of the time).

[NYplayer]

He is on 33-99 a T (could be stronger or weaker) or some missed draw.
Value betting gets paid off by a weaker T or A pocket pair. chekcing may induce a bluff from a missed draw. I also think any T will bet and 99 or 88 might also.

all of these things lead me to think that check calling is best.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
check and hope he checks a better ten behind on the river of bluffs or value bets something worse. basically youre toast most of the time here. the guy has a J and was being cute or timid or both on the turn. or he has a flush draw and he wont call. check that river, main reason being he might naively check behind with a better ten (which he will call with 100% of the time).

[/ QUOTE ]

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
i would fold this one preflop


[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I'd play it in BB, but it just seems a tad loose from SB, even with the structure.

[sam h]

I will go against the grain and say bet here. A lot of party players will play medium to low pairs like this, wishfully putting you on the draw, and they are definitely calling but not betting. And I think people overestimate the frequency with which unknowns will both bluff a busted draw and check behind with something like AT here.

[steveyz]

I'd probably check and call. But if this guy will call down with any pocket pair then I bet. I fold this pre-flop. If there had been more cold callers then the call would be ok.

[theBruiser500]

[ QUOTE ]
i would fold this one preflop, but if i were handed my cards back i'd bet the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

why? won't he be raised often on this board, possibly with a draw and he won't have any idea where he's at and the bet won't serve a purpose.

personally i like calling the flop bet, seeing what action develops behind him and then leading out on the turn.

[stoxtrader]

I'm sureprised you dont have a read in the 15.

If he tends towards calling station its a value bet. If he is aggressive, it's a check/call.

[DrGutshot]

with the 10/15 blind structure, i think an argument can be made for the call.

check and call the river for bluff reasons etc.

-DrG

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would fold this one preflop, but if i were handed my cards back i'd bet the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

why? won't he be raised often on this board, possibly with a draw and he won't have any idea where he's at and the bet won't serve a purpose.

personally i like calling the flop bet, seeing what action develops behind him and then leading out on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

he should bet out hoping UTG raises to knock out the others. I think thats why astro is saying bet.

[sthief09]

most players are going to have AK/AQ (if he's passive), or 99-33 here and pay you off. that's a very draw heavy board and all the draws missed. people like cold calling with pocket pairs. I think there's a ton of value in betting, as all these pairs will check if checked to, but call if bet into. I think he'll have those more often than he'll have a flush draw with which he'll bluff with. I'd also be very surprised if AT or KT checked the river behind you. QT is the only better hand that won't bet

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
check and hope he checks a better ten behind on the river of bluffs or value bets something worse. basically youre toast most of the time here. the guy has a J and was being cute or timid or both on the turn. or he has a flush draw and he wont call. check that river, main reason being he might naively check behind with a better ten (which he will call with 100% of the time).

[/ QUOTE ]


can someone explain why he doesn't have 99-33 most of the time here? if he does, he'll pay off

[sthief09]

check raising commits you more also and still leaves you out of position

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sureprised you dont have a read in the 15.

[/ QUOTE ]

As valueable as playerview etc is it really takes the fun of it for me.

[zombies kill]

cause he raised from UTG+1?

[1800GAMBLER]

I agree with mike l here.

If his range was something like AK AQ QK Axs i have a very close decision (against an unknown) as to if i bet hoping he pays off with Ace high or let him bluff.

Yet in this situation i think any value i have in the chance AK pays off on the river when it would check behind is gone against a hand like AT in which will call a bet but may check behind if i check.

That given the fact AA KK QQ could very easily be in his range makes this a checkcall and very close to a checkfold since the only hand he'll probably bluff (if he does bluff) is KQ as A high has showdown value.

[Lestat]

Your pre-flop call can't possibly be terrific. I'm more inclined to bet the flop. And bet the turn. I think a check gains more on the river. He may check a better hand behind saving you a bet. But he may also bet a busted draw gaining you a bet.

[Deorum]

I just thought I would throw in the comment here that, with
T8, there really are not any "worse tens" to bet the river
if you check behind, so there is no value in that (there is
value in checking the river, just not because a worse ten
might bet). The opponent in this hand cold called two bets
before the flop, so a hand like T7, T6, etc is unlikely. I
like checking the river, but mainly to get a better hand to
check rather than a worse hand to bet.

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
That given the fact AA KK QQ could very easily be in his range makes this a checkcall and very close to a checkfold since the only hand he'll probably bluff (if he does bluff) is KQ as A high has showdown value.

[/ QUOTE ]


opps, he was the coldcaller.

Anyhow, which is strange as i bet (a mistake) and he had QQ.

[obi---one]

[ QUOTE ]
check and hope he checks a better ten behind on the river of bluffs or value bets something worse. basically youre toast most of the time here. the guy has a J and was being cute or timid or both on the turn. or he has a flush draw and he wont call. check that river, main reason being he might naively check behind with a better ten (which he will call with 100% of the time).

[/ QUOTE ]

I check mainly because its the only way I can get more money in the pot when I am ahead.
AND, no way you are toast here most of the time, most of the time he missed and you will probably get another bet over 15% of the time when you check.