I fold my flush draw on the flop in the PP 15/30? [Archive]

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bobdibble

03-20-2005, 12:59 AM

I don't remember doing something like this for a long time.

BB and MP1 were both semi-passive but would also pump draws. Their turbo agrression on this hand most likely meant a straight (or draw), a set, or a flush draw.

Who calls 4 cold here?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds...

JoshuaD

03-20-2005, 01:03 AM

MP1's raise doesn't look like a pump. I think getting 10:1 (probably gonna be 11:1 or 12:1) here is simply too much to fold your draw.

slavic

03-20-2005, 01:06 AM

I would have to be very darn sure that someone has a larger flush draw for me to fold. If they don't you are making a terrible fold.

Have I folded one before, yes I have 24s, was I correct in my thoughts, no but the flush didn't come in so if I want to be results oriented I did ok.

bobdibble

03-20-2005, 02:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
MP1's raise doesn't look like a pump. I think getting 10:1 (probably gonna be 11:1 or 12:1) here is simply too much to fold your draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you are figuring implied odds for the 10:1, because I am only getting 5:1 on my call here (22:4)

And, if I don't improve on the turn, it looks like I am likely going to have to pay another 4BBon top of this to see the river (giving me effective odds of 4:1 to see the river)

These are still very good effective pot oods, but considering that I am f'd if someone holds a better spade draw, or one of them has a set and the board pairs, I am not so sure this is a bad fold.

I tried to pokerstove this giving the EP villians sets, straights, and flush draws, and the button over pairs (AA-TT) and spade overcards (AKs, AQs, etc) but didn't see how to mix in the spade entires for the villians.

I'd really be interested in seeing a simulation against that range of hands to see if I had equity to continue if it was going to be capped to the river.

einbert

03-20-2005, 02:19 AM

Raise the flop.

And don't fold it.

JoshuaD

03-20-2005, 02:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you are figuring implied odds for the 10:1, because I am only getting 5:1 on my call here (22:4)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know where I got my number from, I did it in my head and screwd up.

Anyway, I count it now at ~22.5:3 (I'm assuming the guys behind you are coming along most of the time here, I discounted 1SB's for when they don't). That's about 7.5:1, still too much to fold, IMO. This action is much more indicative of a set or a straight, IMO.

scrub

03-20-2005, 05:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember doing something like this for a long time.

BB and MP1 were both semi-passive but would also pump draws. Their turbo agrression on this hand most likely meant a straight (or draw), a set, or a flush draw.

Who calls 4 cold here?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it at all. Also, you're calling 3 cold, not 4 cold.

In a pot this big, why wouldn't you just raise the flop the first time you get a chance to?

scrub