KQ in the BB [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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kurosh

03-19-2005, 08:31 PM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.83 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

River: (10.83 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets planning to fold to a raise.

MP3 is 21/10/.7
MP1 is LAGgish

I'm wondering about PF and the flop.

slavic

03-20-2005, 12:58 AM

I'd likely fold preflop given the action.

I'd play the flop the same, I'm not sure if it's absolutly correct but you can't fold, and calling seems a bit weak.

kurosh

03-20-2005, 01:18 AM

You fold KQo PF to a LP raise with 2 limpers???

slavic

03-20-2005, 02:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You fold KQo PF to a LP raise with 2 limpers???

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I would. Your normal reasonable raiser in the 15/30 is a 10%er. THat includes the times he or she is just on a steal. This is a protected pot being raised with less than stellar odds for a hand like Suited ace trash, and small pockets. There are lots of hands that I just don't want to play with a reasonable raiser who has position on me. KQo happens to be one of them.

JoshuaD

03-20-2005, 02:20 AM

I don't play 15/30, but I'd play this the same way at 2/4.

wrto4556

03-20-2005, 02:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd likely fold preflop given the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are getting tremendous odds calling a single bet from the BB. Had KQ not been in the BB, I'de fold, too. This just seems like an easy call.

JoshuaD

03-20-2005, 02:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd likely fold preflop given the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Code:<hr /><pre>Hand 1: 25.5887 % [ 00.23 00.02 ] { KhQs }
Hand 2: 34.4212 % [ 00.32 00.02 ] { AA-88, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs, AKo-AJo, KQo-KJo }
Hand 3: 19.9904 % [ 00.19 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 4: 19.9997 % [ 00.19 00.01 ] { random }</pre><hr />

The other players are better than random, but you're no worse than 18%. Folding getting a probable 7.5:1 seems like a bad idea to me.

I was pretty conservative with the hands MP3 might be raising here too.

kurosh

03-20-2005, 02:29 AM

This is an extremely easy call PF. I was wondering whether to 3-bet or call, not fold or call.

JoshuaD

03-20-2005, 02:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is an extremely easy call PF. I was wondering whether to 3-bet or call, not fold or call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a 3-bet is too much. KQo just isn't very strong.

SA125

03-20-2005, 04:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is an extremely easy call PF. I was wondering whether to 3-bet or call, not fold or call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree and think calling is the only option. Having the raiser in LP will probably make it much easier to protect it with a flop c/r if you hit.

scrub

03-20-2005, 05:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You fold KQo PF to a LP raise with 2 limpers???

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I would. Your normal reasonable raiser in the 15/30 is a 10%er. THat includes the times he or she is just on a steal. This is a protected pot being raised with less than stellar odds for a hand like Suited ace trash, and small pockets. There are lots of hands that I just don't want to play with a reasonable raiser who has position on me. KQo happens to be one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that is really weak.

If you can't play this hand getting ~7:1 before the flop, you either can't play after the flop at all or you're selling yourself way too short.

Sack up and call.

scrub

scrub

03-20-2005, 05:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.83 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

River: (10.83 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets planning to fold to a raise.

MP3 is 21/10/.7
MP1 is LAGgish

I'm wondering about PF and the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You played this one right--it looks like you're starting to make plans earlier in hands and getting a sense of what to do when.

scrub

scrub

03-20-2005, 05:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There are lots of hands that I just don't want to play with a reasonable raiser who has position on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, the guy Kurosh is playing against is easy to play against even out of position. His stats indicate that he's a little too loose, a little too passive preflop but not so passive that he couldn't have a wide range raising in LP here, and incredibly passive after the flop.

This is not the kind of guy who should have you wetting yourself when you decide whether or not to play a relatively strong hand out of position with good relative position and a lot of dead money.

scrub

admiralfluff

03-20-2005, 06:23 AM

Can one of you guys elaborate on the flop 3 bet for me, I can't see how'd you'd be ahead of MP3 here enough for it to be good. What would you do without the Kc. I've been staring at this one for a while, and I feel like I'm missing something. What would someone with a .7 AF be raising this flop with that you would correctly 3-bet oop? thanks for any clarification.

ThePenguin

03-20-2005, 07:11 AM

I like the flop three-bet. You take control of the action and maybe you can get MP1 to fold right there. I'm not too concerned about MP1 betting out this flop if he is LAG, and I think it likely I have the best hand at the time