AK hits trips, where do I slow down?

[gorgeous]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 23.75 BB

Opponent is 43%/14%/6.5 (7 hands). Where do I slow down?

[milesdyson]

Call turn 3-bet and call river. Nevermind, cap turn and call river. Nevermind, just noticed that your read is based on 7 hands. Call turn 3-bet and call river.

[bottomset]

Opponent is 43%/14%/6.5 (7 hands). Where do I slow down

7 hands, seriously learn to watch your opponents, not use terribly incomplete poker tracker info

since its headsup, I def ain't capping the turn, so calling down from the turn3bet at least, raising and capping this river is spewing unless you have a better read

[Homer315]

WTF?!? Slow down why exactly? Because you fear the guy has the fifth Ace (A-A)? Maybe you think he raised under the gun with A-X and hit the full house? You're probably splitting, but it's just as possible that the guy has AQ, AJ, KK (and doesn't believe you have it).

Seriously, why on earth would you advocate not capping the turn and river? Either one of you please tell me what you expect the guy to show us?

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF?!? Slow down why exactly? Because you fear the guy has the fifth Ace (A-A)? Maybe you think he raised under the gun with A-X and hit the full house? You're probably splitting, but it's just as possible that the guy has AQ, AJ, KK (and doesn't believe you have it).

Seriously, why on earth would you advocate not capping the turn and river? Either one of you please tell me what you expect the guy to show us?

[/ QUOTE ]

at some point even a hellmuthian 66 becomes more likely than AQ.

[deepsquat]

Im with Homer here, what can hero possibly be behind to? UTG will not be hold 66, more likely AQ, i dont understand the logic behind not capping every street???

[Homer315]

So you think he raised UTG with 66? Let me ask you, do you not three bet from his position with AQ or AJ? I think MAYBE A-X is more likely than 66, but seriously, do you folks only cap with the nuts?

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Im with Homer here, what can hero possibly be behind to? UTG will not be hold 66, more likely AQ, i dont understand the logic behind not capping every street???

[/ QUOTE ]

because its hu, he doesn't care that you are raising .. you want dead money going in, here you don't have that, your read is weak, most ppl aren't gonna go insane and 3bet AQ against a pf3bettor, flopcapper, turn raiser .. he has 66 and A6 enough of the time to make this not worthy of raising

I'm not great at spelling out the math on the EV here, but he has to have AQ, AJ, AT more often than A5,6,8 or 66 to for the raises to be good

[deepsquat]

geez, this must be a serious leek in my game, cos id never in a million years put villain on anything that beats me in this hand.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
So you think he raised UTG with 66? Let me ask you, do you not three bet from his position with AQ or AJ? I think MAYBE A-X is more likely than 66, but seriously, do you folks only cap with the nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

with AQ/AJ? capping all streets is ridiculous. even more ridiculous than raising with 66, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, or A/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/spade.gif UTG.

you cannot go to the felt with this hand, so you have to stop somewhere. capping the turn is fine. capping the river is probably excessive.

[istewart]

Okay, alright misunderstood.

[Homer315]

"I'm not great at spelling out the math on the EV here, but he has to have AQ, AJ, AT more often than A5,6,8 or 66 to for the raises to be good "

Fine, I agree with this, because it's objectively right, but how often do you think people are raising this UTG. You still didn't answer my question about whether you would 3-bet this flop and turn if you had raised with AQ or AJs from UTG. My guess is you both would have raised it.

Ultimately, the disagreement lies in what we think the guy is raising with UTG. Either you think he's semi-rational and will raise with a big Ace, in which case we are way ahead or splitting, or he's irrational, and you can't put him on a specific hand, so we are probably better off raising and punishing stupid people.

(example, I was playing B&amp;M in vegas a few months back. four flush on the board. Some old asian guy raised and re-raised like 5 or 6 times (no cap heads up) and was finally shown the Ace, he had the King). When we pointed out that maybe going to 6 bets wasn't a great idea, he said, sure but only one card in the deck beat me, and what are the chances that guy has it? This same thinking will make someone with ANY Ace three bet each street, thinking, what are the chances the other guy has the other ace...)

FWIW, my guess is either they split or the guy backed into some crap full house, which is the only reason the OP is posting.

[btspider]

we know he's irrational.. unless he tables AK as well.

[Homer315]

No, i wasn't suggesting you cap with AQ or AJ, I was asking whether you 3 bet in that guys position with those hands. I would.

In terms of capping with the nuts, the guy 3 bet EVERY STREET, so unless he has 66 or maybe A-6, we are probably ahead. My point is that if you are not capping with AK here, are you telling me you only cap the river with 66 or the FH? I think you're leaving money on the table in that case...

[btspider]

the problem is our hand is ridiculously transparent here. most unknowns are slowing down with a worse hand after the turn cap.

how i'd play AQ/AJ OOP varies greatly by my opponent. there's no reason to go gonzo here. most players 3-betting range is fairly limited.. so by being aggressive we're either going to fold worse hands or end up paying off better hands. a simple cc, cc, bet line works best quite often.

[BruinEric]

I've already learned a lot on this thread, thanks! I'm guessing the guy turned over AK, but maybe not?

[Greg J]

A lot of poor players with any ace will go nuts here. I do think a slowdown is in order though, sometimes with Ax x = 5, 8, or 6.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
the problem is our hand is ridiculously transparent here. most unknowns are slowing down with a worse hand after the turn cap.

how i'd play AQ/AJ OOP varies greatly by my opponent. there's no reason to go gonzo here. most players 3-betting range is fairly limited.. so by being aggressive we're either going to fold worse hands or end up paying off better hands. a simple cc, cc, bet line works best quite often.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is important, Homer raising HU is much different than raising in a 4handed pot, give me 2callers trapped between the UTG and me and I'm capping the turn every time .. they add a buffer .. here its just you and him and your hand is transparent AK thats it, maybe AQ but its very easy to see .. if he's a thinking but maybe a little loose aggressive(raises any pp, Axs) but still somewhat rational you are crushed when he 3bets the turn, or at best splitting

if I have AQ,AJ UTG, i'm using the check/call, check/call bet line here

[gorgeous]

Guy turned over 66. I'll call the raise on the river next time.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
we know he's irrational.. unless he tables AK as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a point a lot of people are overlooking.

Assuming he doesn't have AK (in which case you might as well slow down and save the rake), Villian has either done something strange pre-flop, or he's mindlessly spewing chips post-flop. Since you've done everything short of taking out a full-page ad in the New York Times to make it clear that you have AK and he's still betting into you like there's no tomorrow, my money is Villian showing 66 or A6. Yeah, that's absurd given the pre-flop action, but anything else is going to be even more absurd given all the post-flop raising.

[kapw7]

You are "lucky" that he didn't turn 7 9 (suited). It has happened to me. I'll try to find the hand in PT and post it. I'd like to meet this guy and ask him: WHY?

[Duerig]

This is just a minor point, but you might not want these words in the title of your post,

"where do I slow down"

This makes it fairly obvious that your opponent beat you on this hand (or at least split the pot) and can taint analysis. I think this is mentioned somewhere in the FAQ.