KK flop question?

[DireWolf]

What is your play on the flop?
This was one of the last hands before the first break in a party 50 dollar tourny.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1728)
Hero (t1730)
UTG+2 (t1715)
MP1 (t1525)
MP2 (t2825)
MP3 (t1194)
CO (t1235)
Button (t3798)
SB (t805)
BB (t1050)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls t200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t200, Button calls t200, SB calls t175, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t1050) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>

[MLG]

tricky spot. I think I push.

[tiger7210]

very tough spot here but any meaningful bet commits you to the hand so I think i push and pray for AQ/KQ to call and if nobody calls that's fine too but i can't see getting away from this hand without playing extremely weak/tight scared poker.

[kuro]

I think I check/call hoping to induce a bluff. You've got an overpair and an inside straight draw and there's no flush draw. I'm not sure pushing accomplishes much here except drive out aces that are chasing their 3 outer.

[adam5206]

I think u have to push. I would always push right here. There is a small chance someone flopped a set or 2 pair and will bust u. It is much more likely though that someone has a Q to call u down with and make u some real profit. Or maybe ull fold everyone and take the already decent pot.

[KenProspero]

It's an interesting hand. My first reaction was push, and I still might, but let's consider this line of reasoning.

Assume that one or more of the callers has a T and therefore an open end straight draw. Normally, you think pushing because you want to drive the straight draws out of the hand by giving them the wrong pot and implied odds.

The fact that you're holding KK makes it much less likely that one of the remaining players either holds a remaining king or will pick one up on the remaining two cards. Also, you have your own gut shot straight draw here which has to be considered.

I haven't done the math, but this may shift the balance so that calling against a bet of half the pot isn't going to actually give correct odds for the call. So, it may be, in this situation that you want to encourage callers on the draw.

Given this, I think betting half the pot (maybe a little less) has to be considered) to build the pot has to be considered.

Any math mavens want to comment?

[Superfluous Man]

I like a push here. First, if you win the pot here you get 2/3rds of the way to doubling up without showing it down. Second, you will get called by AQ, KQ, and QT here, and they're all getting insufficient odds to suck out when you overbet the pot like that. Third, if you check-call a small bet or it gets checked around (or if you bet small and get a caller or two) there are too many cards you hate to see on the turn. Any A, K, Q, J, 9, or 8 leaves you with a really difficult decision; if someone bets big after one of those falls, you may end up folding the best hand.

[DireWolf]

Yeah, I pushed, but i didn't like it. The flop was pretty coordinated and there were a lot of cold callers. I got called by a tight guy with j-10 and he turned another jack and rivered a straight.
My thinking was to either push, or check and fold to any actual action.

[MLG]

you dont mind getting called by J10 in that spot. he has 8 outs making him about a 2:1 dog only getting 5:3. He's making a mistake, although not a huge one.

[DireWolf]

Yeah, that and Aq/kq were probably the best hands i could of hoped for if my push got called.

[kuro]

You push because villains pretty much have to call with kq,Aq, pair + oesd and you get it heads up? You accept that you're going broke if one of the 4 villains hit their two pair or set or straight here? You figure the board is scarry enough that not many people are bluffing at this multiway and the turn could put you to a really tough decision?

[DireWolf]

Well this is what i thought

The flop is real coordinated and with me being the first to act with 4 people behind me, all cold calling my raise, im not in a very good spot.
the hands that im worried about are obviously jj,qq,99 k-10, 8-10, and any two pair, with q-j being the most likely.
To narrow this down a little ill hope that qq would reraise preflop, and 8-10 and k-10 are less likely.
So that leaves jj 99 and qj that are winning, and a-q, kq, j-10, q-10 that could call but are behind. I'd be getting a little worse than 3-1 if someone calls, so i pushed