Do I not understand the gap concept or does it not apply to low limit?

[poker-penguin]

OK, my impression is that the gap concept is that you need a better hand to call a raise than to make the first raise yourself.

Fair enough, I'm starting to see the sense behind that - no chance of opponent folding, he's got something he likes enough to raise with, so you need a better hand to compete, stuff like that.

However, when you're in low limit games (ok, when I'm in low limit games, since you're all big time :P) it seems like this concept is thrown out the window.

When several of your opponents believe that Q5s is a raising hand, do you need still higher standards to call a raise than to open-raise yourself?

Or is the gap concept for all raises (so I should be re-raising with worse hands than I smooth call with against loose pre-flop raisers)?

[mostsmooth]

the gap is adjustable,sometimes theres a big gap, sometimes theres none

[elmitchbo]

first of all, i'm not big time either. i know the frustration of players raising anything suited. never the less, the gap concept does still apply. you have the right idea. you need a better hand to call a raise than to make a raise, yada yada... i think you understand the concept. just think 'what would i raise with in that position'... and then only call with a hand that can hold up to that. if the game is realy loose you can adjust your calling standards down a bit. even bad players know that you should raise with good hands, their idea of a good hand just might be a little out of whack. so even if the game has shown you some crazy things you still need to be weary of a raise.

[Snoogins47]

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When several of your opponents believe that Q5s is a raising hand, do you need still higher standards to call a raise than to open-raise yourself?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but your requirements for both calling, and raising yourself can be lower.

[rob0506]

With these lower limit games, the value of drawing hands increases because of the pot odds and the fact that if you hit you will get called all the way. I would play small pocket pairs in position (folding if I don't hit a set on the flop) and Ax suited. I won't go too far with these, but if I like the flop I'll try to draw out.
This of course assumes that the table you're playing has a lot of players that call a lot of raised hands (5 or more players will still enter the pot).

[Hold'me]

If you know the person raising before you is over-aggressive pre-flop then gap concept should not be taken into account. Gap concept is most effective against conservative players.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]
the gap is adjustable,sometimes theres a big gap, sometimes theres none

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much it. The gap can be zero.

Think of it this way: if you open a pot, you are playing against a bunch of unknown, random hands acting behind you. Once someone raises, that is a non-random hand. You need a hand that is good enough to play against a bunch of unknown, random hands acting behind you plus a non-random hand that has already acted.

The gap is the different in standards here. It is dependent on the raising standards of the hands ahead of you that have acted and the hands behind you that have yet to act. If the player ahead of you is playing so loose as to be playing practically a random hand, then the gap is zero and you can call with the exact same set of hands that you would have raised with (not including hands like AA with which you would normally reraise).

Against a tight player acting before you, the gap is much larger because you need a much better hand against his non-random hand. Similarly, a loose player behind you may make the gap larger because you are more likely to be out of position against a caller. This is why loosening up against maniacs is often a bad idea; either the maniac is to your left and causing you problems, or the maniac is to your right and other players to your left are loosening up causing you problems indirectly as they try to target the maniac.

[IsaacW]

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just think 'what would i raise with in that position'... and then only call with a hand that can hold up to that.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a dangerous statement. Giving your opponents (who are often bad) the same characteristics as yourself (who tries to be good) will result in weaker-than-optimal play against bad opponents.

Each opponent will have their own PFR, and each opponent should be treated separately. If you are against a player who likes to raise any suited paint UTG, then you can call and reraise far more liberally than if you are against a player who only raises according to the SSH "Tight" chart.