Pocket Eights in MP/overplayed?

[KDawgCometh]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 folds, UTG calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB


utg is a loose passive player who has turned up lots of crap hands and even beat me in a big pot with 64s when he hit runner runner fours. Couple of questions, was I in late enough position to raise it with the eighs and did I over play it postflop

[teajay]

Personally, I would have limped since UTG called (note, I may not open limp if UTG hadn't called, but since you're MP1 either one would do)

Second, had I raised this flop it would have been more of a free card play, so when UTG checks to me, I probably would have checked as well, but since there's one behind you to act, a bet may be right.

Feel free to tear me apart, just replying to posts instead of posting my own /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers,
Travis

[shadow29]

nh

[Redd]

I think I'd play it the same way.

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I would have limped since UTG called (note, I may not open limp if UTG hadn't called, but since you're MP1 either one would do)

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping gives people with Ax, Kx, Qx, etc.. (overcards) reason to call. Your hand is very vulnerable to these overcards and thus you want to knock them out. Raising accomplishes this nicely.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
utg is a loose passive player who has turned up lots of crap hands and even beat me in a big pot with 64s when he hit runner runner fours. Couple of questions, was I in late enough position to raise it with the eighs and did I over play it postflop

[/ QUOTE ]

When you say he is loose passive and has turned over those crap hands, I need to ask if he *BET* those hands, or just called them down.

Is he capable of betting overcards? (Then he's probably not passive.)
Is he capable of betting middle pair or a medium pocket pair with just a single overcard? (Then he's probably not passive.)
If he isn't capable of either one, then why are you raising?

[ QUOTE ]
Couple of questions, was I in late enough position to raise it with the eighs and did I over play it postflop

[/ QUOTE ]

You can raise 88 from there if you want to isolate the loose limper (especially if he's weak postflop). If you know there are a bunch of loose players behind you, you might just want to call.

[KDawgCometh]

he was capable of betting second or bottom pair, but to him it didn't seem to matter if he felt he might've had the best hand, it was more hey I got a piece of this flop, I should bet. I had seen him limp with some really bad hands, and he wouldn't neccessarily have an overcard with his second pair. Does that make a difference

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
he was capable of betting second or bottom pair, but to him it didn't seem to matter if he felt he might've had the best hand, it was more hey I got a piece of this flop, I should bet. I had seen him limp with some really bad hands, and he wouldn't neccessarily have an overcard with his second pair. Does that make a difference

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether he has an overcard with his second or bottom pair is somewhat irrelevant. He's drawing to 5 outs against you both cases. The only thing that changes is that you might see his two pair get counterfeited by the river if he holds two cards smaller than 8. But I don't see this factor being enough to really change how you play this.

If you're reasonably sure that his bet means *SOME* pair, then your raise is fine, and you played it okay. (There might be a value bet on the river, but you would need to know more about his play than what you shared to make it with any confidence.)

I would lean more towards folding (since you didn't raise preflop, the pot isn't so big that it's automatically worth fighting for), just because the 3 and 4 are such small cards that I'd need to be pretty sure that he's really loose enough to limp many hands containing those cards UTG AND would bet those hands on the flop. But it's your table, your reads. You've got to go with what you've got.

[shadow29]

You need to cut down the lengths of your posts, chief.

I've narrowed most of my posts down to: "raise pf" or "fold pf".

I think that way I'm the most enlightening to the forum.




j/k dude. You post g00t.

[LoaferGee12]

If he is loose-passive I think I am folding here. In fact, verse any unknown I'm usually folding to a bet here. The board is so uncoordinated that I really don't see anyone betting from UTG here without a jack or better. If you have seen this guy bet a low pair (unlikely if he is passive) then I am fine with this play. I like the freeshowdown.

[DoctorDrew]

Love the flop raise. I drop if he 3 bets.

I'm would probably be going for the free showdown. BUT. . .if I check the flop through I have to be prepared to call the river as he might bluff at me, so I think this is the better way to play it.

[kapw7]

At MP1 I'd rather play 88 multihanded. So I wouldn't raise PF even when opening. At late position I would open raise. Also raise at the button if everyone else folded, to go HU with the UTG limper, depending on my reading of the UTG and the blinds.

[FreakDaddy]

Considering your read of UTG, sounds like your behind after the flop. Passive by definition means that if they're betting they probably have something. I'd fold the flop.