Insane at the Bellagio $30/60?

[LarsVegas]

In Vegas mainly for the WSOP circuit tournaments that are going on at Rio currently, however, has played a little cashgames here at the Bellagio where I am staying.

$30/60 full game, second hand of the session (and first session, so obviously, no reads) after I won on my big blind hand with KJo five-way unraised, leading out on K-6-4 twosuit, getting raised and calling, going h2h to the turn, check-calling an offsuit seven, and check-check on yet another offsuit seven on the river.

There is an early raise (ER), an early cold-call and a cold call from LMP. I toss in $40 with As4s. Big blind comes along, five to the flop for two bets each.

Flop: 9d-3s-2c. Check from bb, ER bets, early cold-caller calls, LMP raises, I 3-bet, BB folds, ER 4-bets, early cold-caller folds, LMP calls, I call.

Turn: 5c. I check, ER bets, LMP calls, I check-raise and they both call. I bet the river dark.

River: 8h. I have bet, EP folds, LMP calls, I show A4s, he shows 88 and my hand is good.

Comments?

lars

[Paluka]

I think the flop 3 bet out of position is suboptimal, I guess you are trying to clean up your ace outs but I just don't see it being worth it.

[LarsVegas]

I'd say one big ace is out there very very often, and he should usually fold for two more bets, very possibly drawing dead. If there is one big ace out there, that would mean I clean up two outs amongst the 39 cards left in the deck for one small bet more. Of course I see that I give LMP a chance to raise again which he wouldn't have if I just called and no-one else raised.

The few times I force out another A4s I am cleaning up 3 outs (4-outer divided in two) if I assume the big ace is still out there too.

I'm not sure. But I think my dark bet before the river sucks big time.

Preflop call ok? A friend of mine who is an excellent limit player thought it was dubious. I think it's OK with a 2/3s small blind.

Also, while I'm not of the "I want action, so I'll show these crazy hands, then complain when someone plays back at me/draws me out with marginal hands" school of thought, but I thought this play also could have implied image/tilt odds if I used it accordingly later on in the session. I am mainly an online player and usually don't take that into consideration at all in limit games.

lars

[Aaron]

Did you eventually get any loose action as a result of the way you played this hand?

[TheBusiness]

How is the $30/$60 game at the Bellagio these days? I am going to be there next week and plan on playing in it.

Biz

[goofball]

It's basically the softest thing ever.

[LarsVegas]

Yes, it's overall been very good, but it feels like the lineup can change from extremely soft to semi-hard within 10-15 minutes. But I've been sat in several games with incredibly soft lineups, like 3-4 total fish and the rest pretty much average and not really a threat either.

The session this morning, KQo won a $1600 or so pot when Q2o three-bet him preflop, some very loose/passive/crap woman (actually chinese, they are usually good) called, as did one very fishy limper too, flop was Q-J-6 and Q2o five-betted it vs KQo with the woman calling all bets in-between. On the turn, another 6, the KQ checkraised, and both players paid off, and on the river the Q2o called and the woman folded after some brief hesitation. The Q2o disappointedly showed his hand.

In one other hand, 54o over-called on the flop of K-T-6 two clubs, which was probably an obvious call getting 13-to-1 or so. He hit a 3 and 2 on the turn and river to beat my QQ which were probably leading up to that point (unless the the button who checked the river in last position had me beat).

Then there's the pot where I raise five limpers with AJs in small blind, a tight and solid big blind 3-bet, first limper 4-bets with 54o, second limper 5-bets with T9. The same to 4-betted and 5-betted respectively on the flop of 7-6-2 twosuit. Tragically, I folded for the cap having called two bets cold first getting 33-to-2 on that call and were unable to see my backdoor flush hit while both the other guys hit the 8 (the T9o guy was allin for $40 on the turn so I wouldn't have had to withstand any heavy raising action on the turn either).

The INCREDIBLE thing about these stories is that they come from the same game and the villains in the hands are all different players. Except the Q2o and T9o guy. He's the same.

lars

lars

[nate1729]

Hate to be one of these guys, but:

Why bet dark? Do you have a solid dark-betting strategy that includes locks and other sorts of hands? Are you representing a flush draw? Do you think you get a set of eights to give you more action if you don't bet dark? Take a look at Mason's first "Two Terrible Plays" column; dark bets can turn raises into calls when you don't want them to.

Thoughts?

[goofball]

i would say that yes, once in a very while the game can get semi hard. Semi-hard means 2-3 players of my caliber or better and the rest players who are decent but figure to be small losers in that particular game but big winners in most 30s.

The game almost always contains at least two total fish though.

[LarsVegas]

I agree. The dark bet is here is terrible and definitely the worst play (the only bad perhaps?) I made during the hand.

[theBruiser500]

the pot will be 17-20 sb or something that you are fighting over. you want to clean up 2/47 cards, putting up 1sb:20sb, but you are cleaning that out up for 2 streets and maybe you get a free turn card (people might be afraid of turn c/r) on the other hand you could get 4 bet.

[JoshuaD]

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I agree. The dark bet is here is terrible and definitely the worst play (the only bad perhaps?) I made during the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What were you thinking when you did it? I don't understand the psychology behind darkbets.

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree. The dark bet is here is terrible and definitely the worst play (the only bad perhaps?) I made during the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What were you thinking when you did it? I don't understand the psychology behind darkbets.

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there are times when it can mean alot. But I prefer it on the flop or the turn. Especially if it gets me all-in like in a PLO game or a NL game and the bet is a percentage of the pot. say 1/3rd.

Last week in a PLO game I was on the button in a 2-5 super frisky PLO game. I had AA98 suited. and limped along with the field. The BB raised to 35, we got 3 callers and when it got to me I fired 170.oo to shut out the field. The BB folded as did one other player and I got 1 caller. I have 90 left and fire it out of position in the dark. The player reluctantly calls saying he knows what I have. I responded with of course you do...why the hell you think I shut out the field? MHIG unimproved.

Back to HE tho. This gets action in the right games too. When ya want it. It's entirely lineup dependent in my opinion. But sometimes if your image is tight ass and you dark bet a flop or turn you get a muck when you want it and at other times you get action when you want it. Suddenly they decide to gamble with you when you have way the best of it. Your image for a few moments has changed. However I never do this against a field of players. Strictly head-up.

[sthief09]

dark betting in big pots is fun because you're basically announcing "I just owned all you guys" before the river comes out.

I dark bet sometimes with a hand that I know I'll hesitate with if I wait until the river comes out.