How'd I play this mid pocket pair?

[coinflip]

First orbit at table, no reads on villain.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Open-raise seems standard from MP.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Favorable flop, and fairly large pot. Villain could easily have overcards here. Check-raise to get rid of 3rd wheel standard?

Turn: (8.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

I plan to fold UI here, but I picked up an OESD...

River: (10.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Fold the river? 1 bet to me closing the action in an 11BB+ pot, but I'm probably not good ...

[zeropotential]

Since we have no reads will assume the button is your average party player (more passive pf then a 2+2er) so the hands i'll put him on are AA-QQ (JJ) AKs... and maybe a few more maybe.

I would bet out on this flop, it makes playing it easier
if raised by villian, I check/fold the turn UI... all hands that villian will be raising here will be killing your two-outter

Since you did pick up the inside straiht on the turn you have 6 outs, the pot lays 9.25-1 meaning you can call profitably

check/fold turn to blank

[LoaferGee12]

I'm folding the flop 3-bet. You are way behind and are not getting the right odds to draw. I like the C/R as opposed to betting out because it gets the correct info out of the player. You will be able to safely fold when he 3-bets and will get a few extra bets out of hand like AK/AQ.

[coinflip]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet out on this flop, it makes playing it easier

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure betting the flop makes it easier. On this board, villain could easily be raising overcards with a (backdoor or otherwise) flush draw or something.

Plus if my hand is best, I really want to force out CO if all he has is overcards. Betting out does not accomplish this.

[coinflip]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm folding the flop 3-bet. You are way behind and are not getting the right odds to draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is certainly an option. I think the odds are closer than you might think; it's only a single SB and my implied odds ought to be pretty good if I hit since my hand is well disguised. I'm figuring to apply the "if it's close, don't fold for 1 more bet" principle to avoid people taking shots.

[zeropotential]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure betting the flop makes it easier. On this board, villain could easily be raising overcards with a (backdoor or otherwise) flush draw or something.

Plus if my hand is best, I really want to force out CO if all he has is overcards. Betting out does not accomplish this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great point, I don't think im considering pot size enough when betting out on the flop when i should be considering a c/r

so okay, flop sounds good now... still when its 3-bet i'm calling the three and then check/folding the turn UI. when the inside straight draw somes i call to the river

[Shillx]

I'm folding the flop 3-bet.

Not a good suggestion. Do you see why? I have 3 problems with it...

1) We are getting 15.5:1 to call the 3-bet. Even if he flipped up something like AA with a spade, our implied odds on just spiking an 8 will be close enough to make this call (not to mention the backdoor straight). We need to get back 7 SB on the turn river (3.5 BB). This is probably doable if the opponent is aggressive.

2) Sometimes we will have the best hand. Just because he 3-bet the flop doesn't mean that we are behind. Some people will 3-bet with overcards to get a free card. He might have something like AK /images/graemlins/spade.gif in which case he has the equity to make this play.

3) Even if we are behind, we always have more then 2 outs. Our backdoor stright draw is worth something as is our backdoor flush draw. I ran a sim against AA (random suits) and we have almost 14% equity. It will be +EV to at least take a look at the turn to see if we can catch a spade or a straightball card (or make a set) here even when we know that we are beat.

Brad

[DoctorDrew]

[ QUOTE ]
I plan to fold UI here, but I picked up an OESD . . . 1 bet to me closing the action in an 11BB+ pot, but I'm probably not good ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand the thinking of I'm going to fold the turn UI, but I picked up an OESD (OK, good you call) that doesn't come in so now I'm going to call one more bet because the pot is so big. You are UI from the flop. I can't call this no matter what Ed Miller NPA says.

I think it is different when you are ahead or might be and a bad card falls on the river and someone bets, you make the crying call. Here, you know you are behind and have been for a long time. Check/fold

[LoaferGee12]

Us having the best hand is really a moot point if we're folding the turn UI. However, if our equity is really 14% here calling the 3-bet and folding the turn UI seems like the better play. I think it's pretty close both ways. Just out of curiosity, what do you think of the C/R in the first place?