A bad bluff?

[foldem]

2/4 NL on party. Villian and I both have about 400 behind. I have only been in the game for a couple of orbits so no real reads. I have the button and the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. The cutoff limps, I limp SB folds and BB knocks.

The flop comes Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The BB checks CO bets 15, I raise to 50 the BB folds and the CO calls. The turn is the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif. CO leads for $20. Is there any merit to just giving the bluff up here and calling his bet and hoping to hit an ace, deuce or club on the river? In the acutal hand I thought he was weak so I made it 125. He thought for a bit and called. The river came the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Button checks, after he calls the turn bet can I fire the third barrell on the river? I pushed he thought for what seemed like forever and finally called. He turned over KK.

I guess I would like some suggestions on how to know when to give up a bluff, or how do you guys pull off a big bluff? Thanks.

[technologic]

before pulling off any bluffs, i try to first make note of the player, whether he is capable of laying down hands, etc. i will usually not fire the third barrel if i have no reads.

in this particular hand, the villain pulled a mini stop and go which seems like he may want to see the last card for cheap, but once he calls that turn bet, i'd assume that he likes his hand and is going to the felt with it. there is very little you can represent that beats him, ie a set, but very lots you can represent that loses, ie TPTK, missed draw. knowing when to give up is also a strong play imo, so i'd check behind on this river.

[mgsimpleton]

i dunno, i think the play might be good against other people... the thing is the 20 bucks smells like a blocking bet. and i think it might very well have been a blocking bet. problem is party players typically love to call raises on their blocking bets. tough one.

i'd give up by the river considering it's only another (eep) 200 or so... maybe if the bet were more than half the pot at this point there's an argument. anyway it seems like he was going all the way. maybe if a club or heart fell?

[okayplayer]

He calls your flop raise, and then leads into you on the turn and calls your raise again... He's not giving up on this hand...time for you to.

[foldem]

I agree that i should have given up on the river, what about the turn play though? How often should I be raising here and trying to take it down? His bet felt like a blocker and I thought he would lay down for a sizeable raise. I could just call getting >5:1 on my money but I doubt I would get payed off if I hit one of my 14 outs on the river, with the exception of a two.

I was trying to represent a set with the turn and river play. I would never go to the felt in a hand like this with a one pair hand.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
I could just call getting >5:1 on my money but I doubt I would get payed off if I hit one of my 14 outs on the river, with the exception of a two.


[/ QUOTE ]
The funny thing about calling when you're getting 5:1 and only need 2.35:1 is that you don't have to worry about extracting more money on the river. It's a profitable play to just call, and if he reraises all in on the turn you have to muck. I'm a big fan of semi-bluffing the turn, but given what a great price you're getting and the possibility he'll reraise or won't lay down his hand on the river (unless one of your scare cards such as an A or a heart falls), I'd take the less risky approach in this spot.

[foldem]

Simply calling the turn bet here is probably the best option getting such a good price. I could most likely still get all of his chips if a deuce or the king of hearts fell on the river. What would the probablity of him folding have to be in order to make raising a better option (how do you calculate that)?

Technologic I like the idea of labeling a player as bluffable before trying a big bluff. What sort of things do you look for? ie opponent layed down a big pot on the river getting 2:1 on his money.

Does anyone have some examples of bluffs that they have run successful or not that they could share? Thanks.