Help Settle a 7CS8 Third Street Argument

[Rick Nebiolo]

Please help settle an argument. This hand came up very early in a 7CS8 one-table tournament on Paradise Poker and everybody had plenty of chips. The game is at the 10/20 level and playing sort of like a moderately loose middle limit game.

A 2c brings it in for $5. A banana folds. Opponent on right limps with a 4c. You hold (3d-3h) Ad. Behind you are a 3s, a Kc, a Ts and a 6h.

Is this a call, a complete the initial bet to $10, or a fold? Is it close between any of the options?

Regards,

Rick

[Dynasty]

With your diamond 2-flush completely live, I think you should play this hand and raise it to represent something better than what you have. You can't raise with (x,x)A only when you actually have (A,x)A. Raising with doorcard Aces when you hold something other than a pair of Aces is necessary to prevent yourself from being too readable.

The 3s behind you certainly hurts your hand. Because of it, you should be willing to release your hand quickly if you don't improve. The dead 3 may make it close between raising and calling. The live diamonds make folding a mistake.

A banana? Is that a 7?

[Rick Nebiolo]

Dynasty,

A banana is a king thru nine. The term "banana" seems to be used more on later streets,e.g., "The low boards all caught bananas of fourth street so I bet.".

I thought it was a fold.

Regards,

Rick

[Dynasty]

I'm only noticing now that this is a Stud8 question. My comments were intended for stud high.

[Ray Zee]

easy fold your hand is junk, especially with the game being loose

[Andy B]

Without reading the other responses (in the proud Rick Nebiolo tradition), I think that this is a clear fold in a tournament or a cash game. Small pairs with Ace or small kickers are trap hands. Most of the value of a hand like (33)A comes from those rare but wonderful times when you spike a trey and can represent a monster low, jamming with a weaker high hand, knocking the other low hands out, and scooping a big pot. Can't remember the last time I did that. One of your treys is gone, rendering your hand unplayable in my opinion. I don't think it would be playable if it were a dead pair of Sixes, either (Sixes is a better pocket pair to hold, because another low hand is less likely to beat you for high accidentally). You might play this hand as an ante steal, but there is a limper. In a game with a normal structure, there is a small chance that the original limper will fold to a completion. With Paradise's structure, there is no chance that someone having called $5 will fold for another $5, especially when his call closes the action. Also, there are three cards in the "play" zone (counting the bring-in) left to act. If you were first in, a raise might be defensible, especially in a tournament. I still wouldn't try it. You have the Trey and the Six behind you, and the bring-in is half-way in as well.

This is a clear call.

[Rick Nebiolo]

David,

Since Ray Zee and Andy B both think it is clear fold I wonder if you, like Dynasty, misread the post and thought it was about stud high rather than stud eight or better. Another possibility is that you intended to answer the post I made last night and misplaced your reply. Usually you misplace your responses within a thread, but perhaps you may be going into new territory of "absent minded professor-ness", which was something my Mom used to accuse ME of.

Or perhaps you and Zee disagree /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

Regards,

Rick

Forgive my ignorance, but is D Sklansky really David Sklansky? Why isn't his name in red like Ray's and Mason's?

PP

[Rick Nebiolo]

Someone else emailed me and pointed out that it probably wasn't David. The possible imposters failure to elaborate had me fooled /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

~ Rick