Why Sklansky should play one pocket

[SNOWBALL138]

For those of you who don't know, one pocket is a pool game where each player must make a certain # of balls in his or her OWN pocket to win. Only the corner pockets on one side of the table are used. All fifteen balls are racked. Pocketting balls in your pocket gives you another turn. Balls pocketted in pockets other than your own ends your turn, and the ball in spotted. Scratches in this game count against your score.

Spots in this game are given in the following forms. I must make 10, and you must make 7. Scratches don't count for one player. The break is assigned every turn to one player. If players are racing to a certain amount of wins, some wins are given "on the wire". Money odds are sometimes used.

I've been watching a lot of one pocket lately, and I see a lot of shotmakers that dominate nine-ball making sucker plays. It seems like a world class gambler like sklansky would have an edge over another players in this game even though the other player had a better stroke.

Of course, if Sklansky had a really bad stroke, and the other player had a decent stroke, Sklansky would be a huge dog to win.

The other thing about one pocket is that its a game for oddsmakers. When you get a HUGE spot in nine-ball you can still easily lose to a world-class player. If you get a huge spot in one-pocket, you can LITERALLY win with your eyes closed.

I could beat Efren Reyes with a big enough spot. In nine-ball though, I can't imagine being even money with Efren even if he gave me the call 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

He'd just hook me until he ran out.

[MHarris]

I generally agree with most of this. Matching up in one-pocket generally favors the better game-maker/negotiator, except for extreme situations where you have a top professional matched up with a significantly lesser player. In one-pocket, top players have such a significant advantage that it takes an exorbitant spot to make up the difference, and the pros are rarely willing to give up that kind of weight.

I think that the average player is much better off playing a champion in 9-ball, where there is less room for error for the better player and the spot will be more valuable to the lesser player. If you think Reyes would hook you all day until he runs out in 9-ball, imagine it being 10 times worse in one-pocket.

[SNOWBALL138]

I'm not saying that pros would offer you 12-4 with scratches don't count. I'm just saying that the possibilities of giving up weight are infinite in one pocket, but in nine-ball, you are restricted by the amount of balls on the table.

What is your argument for a good safety being deadlier in one pocket than in nine ball? In nine ball, a lot of people play the three foul rule, i.e. three fouls, and the game is over. Plus, ball in hand for a pro tends to mean a run out.
I suppose you see less successful hooks on tv b/c of the excellent multi rail kick shots, and jump shots that pros have developed.

In summary, hooks in nine ball are offensive and defensive. In one pocket, they seem to be more defensive.

Anyway, like I was saying, I only watch one pocket. I've never tried to play it, so I'm not trying to make authoratative statements. I'm curious to learn.

Just curious: whats the biggest spot you've ever seen in a one pocket game?

Another question: What kinda spot would you need from Efren Reyes to be even money with him?

[MHarris]

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I'm just saying that the possibilities of giving up weight are infinite in one pocket, but in nine-ball, you are restricted by the amount of balls on the table.


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Agreed. What I was stating was simply an exception of sorts to the rule. Most pro players are at least pretty good and tight spot negotiators, so there are a ton of spots they won't even consider. However, between two players of a closer skill level, the better spot negotiator and gambler will get the best of it more often than not.

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What is your argument for a good safety being deadlier in one pocket than in nine ball? In nine ball, a lot of people play the three foul rule, i.e. three fouls, and the game is over. Plus, ball in hand for a pro tends to mean a run out.


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A great safety in one-pocket can be deadlier than in 9-ball because:
1) It often forces your opponent to take a foul or make a crucial mistake that leads to a runout.
2) Because of the lay of the balls, it is frequently more difficult to make a shot with some sort of positive expectation in one-pocket than in 9-ball.
3) One pocket matches tend to be played by the game or in short races, while 9-ball matches are more often longer races (or, if played by the game, there will be many more games). When a mistake caused by a well-played safe leads to a loss of game, you lose a bigger % of the match/session by losing that single game in one-pocket than in 9-ball.
4) Although it does not often come into play, there is also a 3-foul rule in one-pocket.

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whats the biggest spot you've ever seen in a one pocket game?


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I saw Jimmy Fusco give a pretty weak amateur 15-2 in Philly once. Efren tried to give Jim Hill, a local room owner who plays pretty well, 15-3 a couple of years ago. It didn't work out too well for Efren.

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What kinda spot would you need from Efren Reyes to be even money with him?

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Last time Efren came to town, I asked for 13-5 and the break, and I think I'm a very small favorite in that game. He didn't go for it. I think 12-5 and the break is (or at least was then) about even money.

I played Jose Parica a while back getting 13-7. I played some of the best one-pocket I ever played and STILL lost. His cue ball control is mind-blowing.

[mosta]

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I could beat Efren Reyes with a big enough spot. In nine-ball though, I can't imagine being even money with Efren even if he gave me the call 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.


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you think after the world class player makes the 1 and the 2, in nine ball, it would be harder for you to make any one ball in any one pocket--than to make 3 balls in the same corner, when [NB:] there wasn't an open break, and your opponent only has to to keep you out of one particular pocket? try playing some one-pocket with some crusty old guys who aren't even especially great shot makers but play it for money with each other every day. I think you change your mind. I take the other side, by a long margin. you need to feel the pain of being outplayed in one-pocket first hand. nine-ball against the wcp would be a cakewalk. either he misses or he doesn't, and then you get your shot and it's probably not that hard a shot. it's just a question of how much margin you need before he can be expected to miss. one-pocket, you might never be left in an easy spot. when he takes a missable shot, and misses it, he's completely taken account of leaving you with nothing, probably with more consideration than he gave to his own shot. but, I don't know, maybe it comes down to the comparative unlikelihoods of wcp player missing an attempted shot in N-number of racks of 9-ball, vs you making a couple 2-rail banks in one-pocket. also, it might make a big difference whether we are talking about a hack, or someone with basic skills in each game.