Checkraising the flop with bottom pair.

[shelly]

5/10 6 max. UTG is a loose limper and plays about half of his hands without regard to position.

UTG limps, others fold, and I complete in the SB with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. BB, who is loose and passive, checks.

9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check, BB checks, UTG bets.

This bet tells me nothing about his hand. He will do it in this situation regardless of flop.

I raise, BB folds, UTG calls.

9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet, he calls.

9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, he calls.

Is preflop OK?

Is postflop too tricky? (Go ahead, call me a run of the mill LAG!) Should I pick my battles and wait for a more favorable holding in a larger pot, giving him the blinds this time?

[helpmeout]

I fold preflop. What are you hoping for 3way with 65s? You wont have odds to call with flush or straight draws and weak pairs arent worth much, you are also out of position. 2/5 blind structure this is an easy fold even if UTG sucks.

If you are going to play this hand past the flop you have to bet out and take it from there. Personally I check/fold the turn when the 3rd flush card hits, you have bottom pair and if he doesnt beat you already he likely has a diamond draw plus 2 overcards to your trash pair.

[shelly]

Thanks for the comments. I knew I botched this hand huge and need to stop this crap immediately.

[Michael Davis]

The flop is fine. The turn is a terrible card for you, it completes or pairs any legitimate hand he can have. The guy is very loose so he could still have nothing, but since the turn is a third diamond he might not bet with nothing, since you might be checking because of the flush possibility (even bad players notice these flush possibilities, probably too much).

So you should check the turn, or not. I think it's reasonably close given how loose the guy is. The bet on the river is totally futile as no worse hand will call and no better hand will ever fold in this game.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

-Michael

[TStoneMBD]

i dont agree with the first poster at all. i think that limping here is fine. youre up against two random hands and you have a UTG player who will bet at any flop. very exploitable. i like the flop checkraise and think its vastly superior to betting out against players who will always bet the flop. only thing i dont like is the river bet. i usually check-call here but betting out is correct against players who wont bluffraise you, who wont bet their crap when you check to them, and are capable of calling you down with ace high.

[kiddo]

This was the post I was writing and then I saw u had posted /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I would say:

[ QUOTE ]
i dont agree with the first poster at all. i think that limping here is fine. youre up against two random hands and you have a UTG player who will bet at any flop. very exploitable. i like the flop checkraise and think its vastly superior to betting out against players who will always bet the flop. only thing i dont like is the river bet. i usually check-call here but betting out is correct against players who wont bluffraise you, who wont bet their crap when you check to them, and are capable of calling you down with ace high.

[/ QUOTE ]

+ Why should we be afraid of turn? He sees 50% of all flops and bet any flop, no need to put him on a monster. Checking turn after cr flop is a huge misstake, he got outs and we want him to pay if he wants to hit them.

River is tricky, but I guess that if he likes to bet every flop he also likes to steal any river. Checkcall.

[helpmeout]

How can you exploit someones bad play with a trash hand like 65s out of position?

Woohoo I get to checkraise my opponent with a low pair/flush draw/OESD. Then when I dont improve my hand and he calls I'll fire another bet on the turn and hope he folds.

When he doesnt fold I'll check the river and call a bet.

See the problem here.

[TStoneMBD]

where did i say that you should check the turn? im not seeing it. i said dont bet the river.

-----

as for whether you can exploite UTG with this this hand or not from the sb is still to be determined for me. there was a time a few months ago where i was very tight in my blinds, but now i defend them liberally. i feel that my postflop game has elevated high enough to make these hands profitable, but i could definitely be wrong. i may be in FPS with my blind defenses, we will see. right now im defending my blinds liberally at 3/6 because i really dont care about the stakes all that much, even though there is obviously a serious amount of money to be made in these games 4-8 tabling. after i reach enough hands im going to intensely review my stats from the blinds and try to tweak it as best as possible.

[Gazza]

I also think that your play, against this type of opponent, was all right except for the bet on the river.
And checking the turn would be horrible. If you are going to check the turn when a scare card comes then fold on the flop

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
How can you exploit someones bad play with a trash hand like 65s out of position?

Woohoo I get to checkraise my opponent with a low pair/flush draw/OESD. Then when I dont improve my hand and he calls I'll fire another bet on the turn and hope he folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

If u dont want to play 65s aggressivly with this flop u should fold it preflop. Its that easy. I think that a lot of good players make money calling with thses hands in the BB and then attacking the preflopraiser hard if they hit a pair.