AT off - your move

[curtains]

***** Hand History for Game 1753203762 *****
NL Hold'em $200 Buy-in + $15 Entry Fee Trny:10490054 Level:5 Blinds(100/200) - Friday, March 18, 04:36:53 EDT 2005
Table Table 11673 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: iamrp ( $1820 )
Seat 2: curtainz ( $2010 )
Seat 3: syjohnse ( $755 )
Seat 6: dark_speed ( $2235 )
Seat 8: Gamboholic_ ( $1000 )
Seat 9: MPC77 ( $2180 )
Trny:10490054 Level:5
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ Ac Ts ]
iamrp folds.
curtainz will be using his time bank for this hand.
>You have options at Table 14452 Table!.

your turn -

[Nick B.]

raise 600, call if seat 3 or 8 push, and most likely fold if the others push.

[curtains]

Any reason youd make it 600 instead of 500? I feel like 500 usually gets the job done here.

[Nick B.]

no, no real reason. sometimes I will make it 525 since that is the last click before it goes to 700.

[curtains]

Yeah I always have this problem when someone limps for 30 and I want to raise. I usually want to raise it to 130 but it goes to 125. I want to raise them a full 100 chips though, so I type it out.

[TheAmp]

I push.

1) you gain more FE.
2) look at it from their point of view - bigger stack will need a big hand to call. short stacks might call with dominated hands, and with them, min raise doesnt gain anything.
3)do you want to play a flop with this hand?

[curtains]

These are not the kind of games where flops happen. It's very unlikely that someone will try to just call me and hope to hit a flop.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

it would help if you gave reads rather than just a HH, but making it 500-600 to pushing all sound reasonable, though sometimes i don't mind a fold. so basically my advice is useless. lol.

[TheAmp]

Why do you think your raise is better than a push?
I explained why I prefer moving in.

[curtains]

I'm not saying allin is better than 500-600. I was just saying that fear of a flop is not one of my main factors here when deciding which play to make.

If you believe your big stacked opponent's wont ever get fancy and reraise you with a weak hand, then 500-600 should be fine (This should usually be the case). If you believe your opponents are more creative and might just try to bluff you out, or put you allin with something like A7s, then allin seems more appropriate.

I went allin here, but felt bad about it. Typically in the past I would make it 500 here and likely will in the future. I just wanted to see what others felt.

It shouldn't make that big a deal either way I think..

[TheAmp]

[ QUOTE ]

It shouldn't make that big a deal either way I think..

[/ QUOTE ]

I think pushing is non-exploitable. It CAN be a big deal...

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I went allin here, but felt bad about it. Typically in the past I would make it 500 here and likely will in the future. I just wanted to see what others felt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you bet 500 with AA too? I'd hate to have the more observant 200/15 players make a note that they can always push you off a 2.5xBB raise.

If the 30s, when I see someone bet 2.5xBB, I'm very sure they don't want to be called, but are too proud to min-raise. I'm even more sure when they make a bet like 525. I'm actually more likely to fold if they min-raise for the first time. Is this crazy talk?

[1C5]

What would be your play if you raised to 5 or 600 and you got reraised?

[Nick B.]

Pushing is wrong for a couple reasons. Whenever I have around 10bb, I almost always raise to 3bb, and only I know whether I am going to call a push or not. This depends on who pushes, what their stack is at, what position they are in.

If you open push, smaller stacks might fold dominated or coinflip hands, and you are not able to gain chips. You also are not able to get away from hands that you could have if you had only raised to 3xbb. If I raise to 3xbb and one big stack pushes, and the other big stack calls all in, I can safely muck, knowing I am completely dominated. Something I couldn't do if I open pushed.

[TheAmp]

[ QUOTE ]

If you open push, smaller stacks might fold coinflip hands, and you are not able to gain chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer winning the blinds without contest...

[curtains]

Yes Im definitely making it 500 with my big hands here.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
What would be your play if you raised to 5 or 600 and you got reraised?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call the small stacks and fold to the big stacks. btw, in lower limits its possible that allin is better, if people are routinely calling and going allin with weak aces and KQ and so on.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]

I think pushing is non-exploitable. It CAN be a big deal...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing with players will won't explot anything, and only play their hands in a straightforward fashion (Which is sometimes the case in these situations), then raising to 500 should be more appropriate. There are times where I would just move allin however.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]


If you open push, smaller stacks might fold dominated or coinflip hands, and you are not able to gain chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why these small stacks are going to play if I raise it to 500 but fold if I move allin. It should be pretty clear that all my money is going in against them. I admit that people are stupid so it might affect a rare opponent's decision, but very rarely IMO.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

If the 30s, when I see someone bet 2.5xBB, I'm very sure they don't want to be called, but are too proud to min-raise. I'm even more sure when they make a bet like 525. I'm actually more likely to fold if they min-raise for the first time. Is this crazy talk?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's dependent on who you play with. 2.5 BB is my standard opener in later levels if I have enough of a stack to be raising instead of pushing, and I'll use that bet both for steals and for my strong hands. That said, minraising from people that don't tend to minraise is generally going to be a worrisome sign, so you probably should fear that more than their normal raise.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you bet 500 with AA too? I'd hate to have the more observant 200/15 players make a note that they can always push you off a 2.5xBB raise.

If the 30s, when I see someone bet 2.5xBB, I'm very sure they don't want to be called, but are too proud to min-raise. I'm even more sure when they make a bet like 525. I'm actually more likely to fold if they min-raise for the first time. Is this crazy talk?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definately making some sort of minish type raise, 500 seems nice, with my big hands most of the time. This helps makes the smallish raise in spots like this more effective against observant opponents.