Oddball Party 15/30 Math Question.... (cross post, sorry)

[CallMeIshmael]

Hey all,

Sorry to cross post, but I didnt get any response over in the theory section. And, I know whose advice I can trust and who is Super Pro over here, so bare with me...

Also, I've never played higher than 5/10 online, so I could have something wrong here.

In response to Angus' post (nice thought there) in a different thread

In Party's 15/30 game (or similarily structured games) there is a small blind of $10 and big blind of $15.

Thus, the cost per round is $25. This means the cost of blinds per hand = $2.5 (assuming a 10 handed table).

BUT, if you post in the cutoff, you see 7 hands, for the cost of one BB. $15/7 = $2.14.

This can also be done in regular 1/2 sb structures, but it is VERY close. I would assume that the fact you never play as the button makes up for this difference.

But, at the 2/3 structure, this difference seems to big for the one missed button to overcome.

Any thoughts on this?

EDIT: I'm sure there is a mistake in here (not counting something or other) that I've overlooked. I just don't know what it is.

[admiralfluff]

on a further note, and in partial response to your 1/2 comment, wouldn't posting in good position more than make up for not getting the button? When you pay 3 SBs per round, you are forced to put .15 BBs per hand, from a position where calling a raise means poor position for the rest of the hand. If you post from the CO, and pay .285 SB per hand, you pay them all from a position where it is correct to call a raise with far more hands, right? My interest is peaked. I would imagine at 15/30, player reads become prettty caluable though...

(editted mixed up SB/BB)

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
If you post from the CO, and pay .285 BB per hand, you pay them all from a position where it is correct to call a raise with far more hands, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I never thought of that, and yes!

[ QUOTE ]
I would imagine at 15/30, player reads become prettty caluable though...

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, you lose A LOT from playing with out reads.

Also... in terms of a BB/hour thing... you are losing a lot because you are constantly getting up from a table.

[Spook]

I have thought about this, and one of the down falls is that you are never on the button, and frankly the cutoff is one position I have trouble playing from.

If you keep skipping your BB and SB then you have to post a dead SB which kills your probablity. So assuming you are posting a SB in the cutoff instead of playing in the SB and the Button, and you can see where this is a bad trade.

[admiralfluff]

Playing a post in the CO allows you to call A LOT of hands, I think. If you can play more hands correctly, you can make more money. I think you miised the point a little, as skipping blinds and then posting is not the method suggested. Sit down, and don't post until you get the CO, where you will have to put in one SB (small bet, not small blind). The real clencher, as Ishmael pointed out, is that you then have to leave the table when your big blind comes around, and find another place to post a CO. You lose a lot of valuable time for an likely real, yet small increase in winrate.

[sthief09]

assuming you're a winning player, you'll win some theoretical money in those extra 3 hands

[admiralfluff]

[ QUOTE ]
assuming you're a winning player, you'll win some theoretical money in those extra 3 hands


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see how this is relevant. In one case you pay .15 BB per hand, in another you pay slightly less. In the first case you pay on 20% of your hands oop, in the second you pay on ~14% from the CO. You can play as many hands as you want. If you're telling me I'm wrong, I'm sure I am, but could you please explain further?

[Frequitude]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't see how this is relevant. In one case you pay .15 BB per hand, in another you pay slightly less. In the first case you pay on 20% of your hands oop, in the second you pay on ~14% from the CO. You can play as many hands as you want. If you're telling me I'm wrong, I'm sure I am, but could you please explain further?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not telling you that you're wrong, he's telling you that you aren't completely right. While, yes, this may be saving you a small amount every orbit, a winning player will make more in the SB, BB, and especially the button than he will trying this blind-skipping tactic.

[chief444]

I think your win rate per 100 would increase and win rate per hour would decrease.

[ QUOTE ]
This can also be done in regular 1/2 sb structures, but it is VERY close. I would assume that the fact you never play as the button makes up for this difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
You also never play in the worst two positions.

Some low limit B&M games don't even make people post in CO. They just get dealt in. But I've never seen anyone sit for 6-7 hands and leave. I've never seen this at 10/20 or above though.

[crunchy1]

In your original post you seem to suggest that $2.5/Hand is significantly larger than $2.14/Hand (if I'm reading correctly). $2.5/hand is 8% of one big bet and $2.14/Hand is 7% of one big bet. I don't think this is significant.

I do think this is similiar to the arguement of why we multi-table. We play 3,4,6 and 8 tables at a time to increase our win rate by seeing more hands per hour. Thinking along that line is kind of what Chief said:

[ QUOTE ]
your win rate per 100 would increase and win rate per hour would decrease.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather pay my blinds each time for that extra %1 of a Big Bet and see 10-20 extra hands per hour (including that hand where I have the best position) that give back some of my winrate. Just as I prefer to play 4 tables rather than one so I can see 200-250 hands/hour rather than 50-60.