repost of the collusion hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

party36master

03-18-2005, 01:05 AM

Hopefully this post is easier to follow.
I lost $95 when 2 folks colluded. I complained to party. I'll let you know what I hear back.

These hands were played in order.

Hand 1:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ caps, MP2 calls, CO :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
colluder 1 bets, MP2 folds, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

Turn: (10.66 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

River: (18.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 folds.

Final Pot: 23.66 BB

Results in white below: 
colluder 1 doesn't show.
Outcome: colluder 1 wins 23.66 BB. 

Hand 2:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ calls.

Flop: (17.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
colluder 1 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (15.16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 1 bets, MP2 calls, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, MP2 folds, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

River: (24.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

Final Pot: 32.16 BB

Results in white below: 
colluder 1 has Qh 2s (three of a kind, twos).
colluder 2 has 5s 6s (two pair, sixes and fives).
Outcome: colluder 1 wins 32.16 BB. 

Hand 3:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ raises, 4 folds, BB :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ 3-bets, UTG calls, MP2 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ caps, BB :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
colluder 1 bets, UTG calls, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, UTG calls, colluder 2 calls.

Turn: (10.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
colluder 1 checks, UTG bets, colluder 2 calls, colluder 1 calls.

River: (13.66 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 1 bets, UTG calls, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, UTG folds, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

Final Pot: 22.66 BB

Results in white below: 
colluder 1 has 4h Qh (full house, sevens full of fours).
colluder 2 has 3d 9c (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: colluder 1 wins 22.66 BB. 

Hand 4:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ raises, 4 folds, SB :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ 3-bets, 1 fold, MP1 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ caps, SB :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 folds.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

Results in white below: 
colluder 1 doesn't show.
Outcome: colluder 1 wins 21.50 BB. 

Hand 5:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ raises, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+2 :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ caps, MP1 calls, Button :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, colluder 2 bets, MP1 calls, colluder 1 raises, BB calls, colluder 2 3-bets, MP1 calls, colluder 1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (14.16 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, colluder 2 bets, MP1 calls, colluder 1 calls, BB calls.

River: (18.16 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, colluder 2 bets, MP1 calls, colluder 1 raises, BB calls, colluder 2 3-bets, MP1 calls, colluder 1 caps, colluder 2 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 32.16 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Qd Qs (one pair, queens).
colluder 2 has Tc Js (two pair, jacks and tens).
MP1 has Jd Ah (one pair, jacks).
colluder 1 has 4h 8h (high card, jack).
Outcome: colluder 2 wins 32.16 BB. 

Hand 6:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ raises, 2 folds, BB :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ 3-bets, Hero calls, CO :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ caps, BB :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 2 bets, Hero raises, colluder 1 calls, colluder 2 3-bets, Hero calls, colluder 1 calls.

Turn: (10.66 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 2 bets, Hero folds, colluder 1 raises, colluder 2 3-bets, colluder 1 caps, colluder 2 calls.

River: (18.66 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
colluder 2 bets, colluder 1 raises, colluder 2 3-bets, colluder 1 caps, colluder 2 calls.

Final Pot: 26.66 BB

Results in white below: 
colluder 2 has 6h Tc (flush, king high).
colluder 1 has 8d Js (flush, king high).
Outcome: colluder 1 wins 26.66 BB. 

Hand 7:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ raises, MP3 3-bets, 2 folds, SB :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ caps, 1 fold, MP2 :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 2 bets, colluder 1 raises, MP3 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, colluder 1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 2 checks, colluder 1 checks, MP3 bets, colluder 2 calls, colluder 1 calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
colluder 2 checks, colluder 1 bets, MP3 raises, colluder 2 calls, colluder 1 calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

Results in white below: 
colluder 2 has 4s Qs (one pair, fours).
colluder 1 has 2c 9d (flush, king high).
MP3 has Ks Ad (flush, ace high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 21.50 BB. 

Hand 8: Ok, I played like a total moron. I had collusion induced tilt.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ 3-bets, 3 folds, Button :#A500AF(colluder 2)/ caps, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 :#A500AF(colluder 1)/ calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, colluder 1 raises, colluder 2 3-bets, Hero calls, colluder 1 caps, colluder 2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.66 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, Hero calls, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (21.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, colluder 1 bets, colluder 2 raises, Hero calls, colluder 1 3-bets, colluder 2 caps, Hero calls, colluder 1 folds.

Final Pot: 32.66 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Qd (high card, king).
CO doesn't show.
colluder 2 has Td Js (straight, jack high).
Outcome: colluder 2 wins 32.66 BB.

disjunction

03-18-2005, 01:09 AM

See my analysis of hands 1-3 in the original thread. I could be wrong, but to me they either look like terrible players or terrible colluders.

GrandmaStabone

03-18-2005, 01:14 AM

Wow, at first I thought you were just whining, but thats inconceivable.

beta1607

03-18-2005, 01:36 AM

If hand 3 isnt colluding then I couldnt imagin what is.

Go Blue

03-18-2005, 02:04 AM

Hmm...I would be very interested in knowing what responce you got from Party. Can you post it?

theRealMacoy

03-18-2005, 06:07 AM

interesting post...

hand 3 seems particularly rank.
i still would have to agree thay you could make some $ with players like these, if you have the guts to stand on your premium hands.

i would love to see the response you get from Party. Post it when/if it comes through.

cheers,
the Real Macoy

cardcounter0

03-18-2005, 11:48 AM

Every one seems focused on Hand 3, but what about Hand 5?

On the river, with two other players still in and his partner with two pairs, the maniac raises and caps on a 3T2J7 board with 84.
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Peter_rus

03-18-2005, 12:17 PM

It seems like stupidness - not a collusion.

Quad fours

03-18-2005, 12:18 PM

If you suspect collusion, why are you still playing in that game? Collusion shouldn't cause you to tilt. It should cause you to hit the "leave table" button.

LinusKS

03-18-2005, 02:57 PM

Yeah, I agree with the others. It could be a case of players playing badly, but it looks a lot like colluders who don't know what they're doing.

It looks like their strategy - if you can call it that - is just to try to drive everyone else out of the pot, unless one of them actually picks up a hand.

You just don't see people capping the river with 8 and 9 high on 3/6, and to see two people doing it within a couple of hands of each other is pretty suspicious - as if they didn't care if they lost, as long as they lost to each other.

If they are colluding, they're losing money, and I'm not sure I wouldn't mind sitting with them, even if I knew they were sharing cards.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't have reported them. I'll be curious to see what Party says.

imported_stealthcow

03-18-2005, 03:26 PM

these players make the game great.

even if they are working together to drive others out, this is probably the simplest form of collusion and the easiest to combat. just wait for decent hands, take a little heat with them and you'll win a $120+ pot against hands like Qx and Jx.

i'm guessing by around hand 20 or so of doing this, the rest of the table is on tilt and calling caps with hands like 56s making the game probably one of the best ever on party.

stealthcow-

Vancity82

03-18-2005, 03:45 PM

I've heard all sites monitor the frequency that two players sit together at a table. If two players are always at the same table together they investigate for collusion.

lozen

03-18-2005, 04:56 PM

I know pokerstars takes it seriously. They have refunded cash when they caught cheaters.I know once a guy accused me of collusion as another capped the pot on flop,tun and river. I had pocket kings tripped on flop. The other guy was just bad. I guess the only way to prove is if they routinely play at the same table together

bernie

03-18-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If hand 3 isnt colluding then I couldnt imagin what is.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you have 2 maniacs going at each other, some hands will look like this. Welcome to multiple maniac games. Notice this pattern is regardless of what they hold in other hands. Just in this hand they happen to be especially light.

b

bernie

03-18-2005, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the only way to prove is if they routinely play at the same table together

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't really prove much other than they may like to play with eachother. They could be on each others' buddy list knowing that they will be in a game with alot of action if they are together.

I mean, if a buddy and me decide to go on a lower limit table and jam it up every hand, and we do this a few times in a week, we are colluders? We used to get this all the time at a smaller cardroom I used to play at.

Need better proof than just playing together. As a few have pointed out, they aren't doing a very good job of colluding if they are.

It's ridiculous to think the hands they are HU and jamming that they are colluding. If anything, that points to the likeliness that they aren't.

This looks like a great table.

b

party36master

03-18-2005, 09:12 PM

I got a response from Party.
I'm posting it in the other thread.

skoal2k4

03-18-2005, 09:58 PM

why the [censored] is there two threads about this?