how'd i play this JJ hand? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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bigmac366

03-18-2005, 12:45 AM

so significant reads on either villians after 2 orbits.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Vern

03-18-2005, 01:12 AM

I aint saying it is right, but it looks about the way I would have played it.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

ewile

03-18-2005, 01:13 AM

I like it! That turn raise took balls and may have won you the pot if UTG+2 had AK.

I tend to get intimidated if an overcard to my Pocket pair falls on the flop.

Nice hand!

adamstewart

03-18-2005, 01:42 AM

fold preflop.

CallMeIshmael

03-18-2005, 01:49 AM

I'm not fond of the PF call, but I like it from then on.

Vern

03-18-2005, 01:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, yeah, I missed that the first time I read it. I won't be calling 3 cold or capping with hooks w/o reads on the raisers.

Vern

Jules22

03-18-2005, 05:14 AM

normally i loathe the preflop debate, but here it is important. this is in my mind a clear fold without reads to the contrary

einbert

03-18-2005, 05:16 AM

like a true master of the game sir

and i honestly believe that

EDIT: Folding pf is indeed an alternative way to play the hand. Against unknowns i like this way better. If folding pf is correct then this line is a very close second. Well-played my dear friend and associate.

aron

03-18-2005, 08:05 AM

Would you fold if you turn raise was 3-bet?

I like this line, will try is sometime.

-aron

JoshuaD

03-18-2005, 08:19 AM

I fold preflop.

Can someone explain why raising the turn is better than raising the flop?

adamstewart

03-18-2005, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Can someone explain why raising the turn is better than raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even notice the rest of the hand after I said "fold preflop."

The turn raise is chip-spewing, imho. I don't like it at all.

Hero may be raising with the worst hand. Further, he risks getting 3-bet.

For the same price as those 2 Big Bets Hero put in on the turn, he could have called down the turn and river for the showdown. In this case, I think Hero got lucky that he only had to put in 2 big bets to see the showdown. Most of the time, it'll cost him more than that by raising the turn.

Adam

JoshuaD

03-18-2005, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Can someone explain why raising the turn is better than raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even notice the rest of the hand after I said "fold preflop."

The turn raise is chip-spewing, imho. I don't like it at all.

Hero may be raising with the worst hand. Further, he risks getting 3-bet.

For the same price as those 2 Big Bets Hero put in on the turn, he could have called down the turn and river for the showdown. In this case, I think Hero got lucky that he only had to put in 2 big bets to see the showdown. Most of the time, it'll cost him more than that by raising the turn.

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I thought. Everyone in the thread seems to disagree with us though.

PokerBob

03-18-2005, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so significant reads on either villians after 2 orbits.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously consider dumping this preflop. OK, maybe not dumping it, but I'm not sure I cap.

Post-flop, I don't like your line at all. With all of that preflop action, you are likely looking at AK,AQs, or a big pair. You are ahead of AK, AJ and TT. That's it.

Your line cost you 2.5BB from the flop on to get to showdown. Raising the flop and betting the turn will likely cost you 2.0BB.