Was I out of line (calling the winner)?

[Chimp]

Hey all:

Touchy moment came up in our office game last night...Three people went all-in on Q 10 4 flop. P1 showed 10 10, P2 & P3 each had AQ. Turn was a blank, river Q.

Everyone at table reacted as if P2 & P3 had won. They were celebrating, P1 was moaning. I was not in the pot, but was dealing for the round. I opened my big mouth and said to P1, "dude you won." P2 & P3 were all pissed, as were most of the other players. They were saying if he was stupid enough to not see it, he shouldn't get it. Nobody had mucked, and I said cards speak. P1 ended up with the pot, but there were some hard feelings toward me.

I know that P1 should have gotten the pot, but in a home game, should players not involved in the pot just shut the F up? Does it make a difference that I was dealing that round?

Thanks for the advice...

[jojobinks]

cards speak. i'm with you. these are the sort of uncomfortable things that come up in new games. i feel for you; i'm that guy in my game.

[gmunny]

I agree..no muck..cards speak. You did right thing. Tell those babies to stop crying!
G$

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]

I know that P1 should have gotten the pot, but in a home game, should players not involved in the pot just shut the F up? Does it make a difference that I was dealing that round?


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Do you play "cards speak"? If so, you were absolutely right to act as you did.

[Chimp]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you play "cards speak"? If so, you were absolutely right to act as you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

And there's the problem. We hadn't set up any rules either way on the issue. I just went ahead and blurted it out. If the rule wasn't discussed ahead of time, I'm wondering what the average player's expectations are in the situation, and whether those expectations should be upset in the name of a rule nobody at the table (except me) had heard of.

In all, I think I'd do it again. It just seemed fair.

Thanks for the input.

[rogue]

People who whine about not winning the pot without the best hand are lame.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
And there's the problem. We hadn't set up any rules either way on the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't worry about it. If you don't set up a rule saying you AVOID common poker practice, then we'll assume normal rules apply. I don't start the evening by announcing that only your top 5 cards play, but you still can't win with 3-pair.

I think you did the right thing. I agree with Rogue. Whining while holding the inferior hand is poor.
-Sam

[Iron Butt]

There are three basic principles in play here I think. One is cards speak; two is it's the dealer's job, even if he's only dealing for that hand, to make sure things go right including that the pot goes to the right person; three, trying to take the pot without the best hand if you know better would be to put it kindly, "angle shooting", or a.k.a. cheating. The hand is the hand, the winner is the winner, there's no room for other interpretations. If you put money on a football game and told the other guy his team lost when it didn't, would that be cool?

[LSW]

I agree with all of the above. If not specified, cards speak and it is the dealer's obligation to review the hand. IMO, if a rule has not been specified ahead of time, then basic legal casino rules should be followed. I would not take any crap from someone who was upset that you noticed their mistake in thinking they had the best hand. Good luck.

[drexah]

If i were dealing, i would have immediatley realized both P2 and P3 were almost drawing dead, and even when the Q fell on the river i think i would immediatley just ship the chips to P1 before anyone really started acting all crazy. I'd rather do this then blurt out "guys..P1 won" after they got their hopes up for a few moments. If you were to just ship the chips to P1 they would take another look at the hands/board and just realize it, and they can't really question you or get mad at you cause you were dealing and just gave the player who won his chips. Although if p2 and p3 already started to take the pot i would definitely say something. I think even if the cards were flipped down, but not mixed in with the other cards i would say something, at least at my game. Sounds like the guys you play with are pretty much beginners, though.

[shant]

Who are these morons you guys are playing with who are always getting so nitpicky over the slightest things? I've never seen so many people who try and angle-shoot over $10 buy-in situations. They're sore losers and I'd never want to play with anyone again if they turned into little bitches because they didn't win with the second best hand.

[djoyce003]

Actually i'd have to come back over the top and get in P2 and P3's face for acting like they won when they knew they didn't, just to see if they could get the pot from the person it truly belonged to. Their behavior is infinitely worse and intolerable in my opinion. If it's supposed to be a friendly game, they shouldn't be cheating/angle shooting like that.

[Fins]

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I think you did the right thing. I agree with Rogue. Whining while holding the inferior hand is poor.


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[brokedickrooster]

You did the right thing. They all should have known they were drawing dead after the turn.

[Slow Play Ray]

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Was I out of line (calling the winner)?

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no.

[htc1278]

Definitely not out of line. Once the Q hit on the river I would have said, "Toot toot, nice boat, 10's over Q's." I would have then pushed the chips to the winner and hopefully everyone would have realized what happened before they started whining. If they still complained I'd tell them that the person with the best 5 card hand gets the pot and it's not them.

[Cin0s3]

i know in all the hold 'em games I play cards speak. I have found that dealers choice is another story especially with hi-low split pot games.

[Kinnipak]

I always play "Call your hand"...but the entire poker world says cards speak...which is fine. The bottom line is make the rules clear BEFORE the game begins...then everyone knows what the rules are. Never complain...never explain.

Cheers all.

[Jersey Nick]

You did it right. Find a copy of Robert's rules of poker, print them out, and keep them with the chips. When arguments arise, get out the rules.

Do you like working for www.toolco.com (http://www.toolco.com) ?

[EStreet20]

You were dealing, he showed up his hand and didn't muck it. It's the dealer's job to pick the winning hand.

[smoore]

I would have said something even had I not been dealing the hand. Those a-holes that would take a pot away from an obvious newbie should be flogged.

[ QUOTE ]
They were saying if he was stupid enough to not see it, he shouldn't get it.

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If the're stupid enough to think that AQQTT beats TTTQQ they deserve to get "slow rolled". That's probably why they were pissed, they thought they won and then you smacked them down with some hard, cold reality.

Cards Speak. That's involitate. If you don't enforce it, next time some dumbass might try to take another $500 out of his pocket to call a big bet when he's been playing short all night and gets a royal.

[ClonexxSA]

I think you did the right thing. In our home game last night this came up as well, but it was not intentional.

A big pot (well big for us, we only play 10/20 cent no limit) developed between 2 players who are fairly new, and extremely loose/aggressive.

After the river hit the board was 5 3 5 blank Q, no flush or straights out there. PLayer 1 turns over her hand (K 3) and says "Two Pair" meaning 3s and the 2 5s on the board. The guy to my right turns over A Q and says "I only have a pair of queens" in a dejected voice. Noone mucked, cards were turned over in the middle of the table.

I was the dealer and as Player 1 started to pull the pot her way I politely asked her to stop and explained that Player 2s QQ55A beats her 5533K, and why it does. She looks at the cards, realized the mistake she had made and moaned and sat down.

Funny thing is, PLayer 2 bet $1 on the river when the Queen hit, completely thinking he was bluffing the entire time. He forgot what cards he had and was just playing the board and his opponent trying to bluff her out of the pot every step of the way (which is almost impossible with this woman...Calling Queen is her nickname.)

Anyway, you did the right thing. Anyone that tries to cheat someone out of a pot by not telling them they have the winning hand is scum. I understand some feel that people should know their hands and know they have won or lost, but newer people sometimes don't realize it (as was the case with my game last night) and that needs to be brought to their attention. I would never ever steal a pot from someone because they thought my hand beat them when it didn't if both hands were turned over and noone mucked.