Why UNC > Dook

[nothumb]

This is a recurring discussion I have with Dook fans.

Of course I hate Dook. It's reflexive, I can't help it. I hate everyone that plays for Dook, roots for Dook, thinks about Dook, coaches Dook, wipes a Dook player's pampered, overhyped ass for him, has gay sex with a starting Dook guard (who doesn't take off the undershirt BTW), etc. I have no choice. I was born and bred a Tarheel fan.

I have to admit, Dook has pwned UNC head-to-head lately. But here's the reason UNC is historically a better program, (aside from having more class, better fans, a better legendary coach, and better parties).

Best Duke players of all time, and where are they now?

Laettner is a journeyman forward too slow to be a 3, too wimpy to be a 4, pretty much a mediocre roleplayer throughout his career.

Grant Hill can't walk to the mailbox without spraining something.

Hurley and Williams got in ridiculous car accidents before playing a single game and are useless.

Only Dook player I can think of doing much in the NBA is Brand, he deserves a bit of respect.

Now, for UNC, we have...

Jordan, Worthy, Perkins, Jamison, Stackhouse, Carter, etc.

Also a number of key role players in the NBA have come from UNC - Sheed, Brendan Haywood, Jeff McInnis, etc.

Discuss.

NT

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your argument in favor of UNC's superiority is that their "better legendary coach" won fewer national championships with significantly better players?

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your argument in favor of UNC's superiority is that their "better legendary coach" won fewer national championships with significantly better players?

[/ QUOTE ]

ni han

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
So your argument in favor of UNC's superiority is that their "better legendary coach" won fewer national championships with significantly better players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch.

No, my argument is that he wasn't a total douche and a disciple of the most colossal bastard in the history of basketball. The coach thing, more aesthetic.

NT

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So your argument in favor of UNC's superiority is that their "better legendary coach" won fewer national championships with significantly better players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch.

No, my argument is that he wasn't a total douche and a disciple of the most colossal bastard in the history of basketball. The coach thing, more aesthetic.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, time for the Hoosier fan to step in. Yeah - Coach K is a former Knight guy. And you know what? I bet that's got just a LITTLE bit to do with why he can take any recruiting class and keep his team in the top 4 or 5 . Every. Freaking. Year.

And while a lot of outsiders (read "people who only know about Coach Knight for the negative press he gets") think he's a colossal bastard, ask 99.9% of the people that have every played for him. They'll tell you that not only did they come out better basketball players, but better men.

Oh yeah, and he's also the last coach to go undefeated through the entire regular season and the tourney to win the National Title. Of which he DOES have 3 (and could very well have another one or two by the end of his career if he ever get out of the basketball hellhole that is Lubbock, Texas.)

[jdl22]

How clever, you have changed the spelling of Duke so that it is now spelled the same way as a slang term for defecation.

btw you missed one:
[ QUOTE ]

Best Duke players of all time, and where are they now?

[/ QUOTE ]

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
ask 99.9% of the people that have every played for him. They'll tell you that not only did they come out better basketball players, but better men.



[/ QUOTE ]

interesting how you can say the same thing about Coach K. I have a lot of respect for Knight as well and think he's really gotten an undeserved bad rep.

[Dead]

I'm sorry, are you actually dissing Bob Knight?

Bob Knight is the [censored] man. Talk smack about Coach K all you want but he had an awesome teacher.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, are you actually dissing Bob Knight?

Bob Knight pwns. Talk smack about Coach K all you want but Coach K had an awesome teacher.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you possibly say Bob Knight pwns and then say to talk smack about Coach K? Either they both pwn or you hate them both.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Either they both pwn or you hate them both.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true. Just because Bob Knight taught Coach K how to coach doesn't mean that I have to think that either both of them pwn or neither of them pwn.

You can hate awesome coaches. I don't hate either of them. I just don't like Coach K's attitude.

I think Bob Knight is one cool dude though. If SU didn't already have Boeheim, I'd have loved for him to come coach here(probably would never happen though).

[Edge34]

You're right about Coach Knight - which I respect - but what is there NOT to like about Coach K?

He's a fantastic coach, he makes his players better people...and maybe I'm just missing something, but the only thing I see in his attitude is "I'm going to try to win every game I coach".

There's a definite reason Coach K is the way he is, and that's thanks in large part to learning from Bobby Knight. I'm not gonna convince you not to hate Duke, but leave Coach K out of that one...

[Dead]

What makes me dislike K is his insistence that there is something different about Duke's basketball program, compared to the rest of the nation's programs. Not that Duke has better basketball players but it's like he thinks that Duke is divinely blessed or something, or that their program has some kind of higher purpose than making good athletes better.

[Edge34]

To be fair, there IS something different about Duke's program. When you win a lot, the best players come there. That's why they KEEP winning. Its a nice cycle like that.

On the other hand, my boys in Crimson and Cream have gone through some tough years with the loss of Coach Knight and basically not a lot of good since their NCAA Final loss to Maryland a few years back...but they're on the way back up with some promising frosh, and that'll just turn it up more.

Gotta love college hoop that way.

[Dead]

Coach K insists that Duke doesn't win because they get the best players. Let's be honest, Coach K thinks that he is 100% the reason why Duke is the team that they are today. After he made Duke a household name, every good player in the nation and their mothers want to go to play bball there. It's not hard to see why Duke always does well.

But compare K to Knight.

Knight went to TTech and turned a TTech team that had been shitty for god knows how long and has brought them to the tournament repeatedly. What is this his third time since coming to TTech? It's crazy. And he did the same thing in Indiana.

Bob Knight is a superior coach to Coach K.

Bob Knight can make shitty teams good. There's a kind of magic about him that I just don't see with Coach K.

Night.

[MEbenhoe]

Coach K unlike many coaches has more in mind than just winning basketball games. There's a reason Elton Brand was the first player to leave Duke before graduating, and very few have done it since, and its not because they wouldn't have been drafted highly.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Coach K insists that Duke doesn't win because they get the best players. Let's be honest, Coach K thinks that he is 100% the reason why Duke is the team that they are today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at this year's team. There's a lot of teams around the country with more talent, yet Duke still earns a #1 seed. Coincidence? I think not.

[nothumb]

No, it's because they know they won't make it in the NBA.

Screw Bobby Knight, this thread is about all the great UNC players in NBA history. What school has had anywhere close to as many? See?

(Yeah, I know, I brought up BK in the first place, STFU)

NT

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
No, it's because they know they won't make it in the NBA.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has never been a reason for any player who would get drafted to not declare for the NBA draft, and hell a lot who have no chance of being drafted.

[aLOWdAkING]

Nobody mentioned he forgot Elton Brand yet??

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody mentioned he forgot Elton Brand yet??

[/ QUOTE ]

actually he's been mentioned twice in this thread

[SinCityGuy]

Jimmy V did much more with less talent than Dean Smith or Krzyzewski.

[PeeWeeH]

[ QUOTE ]
Jimmy V did much more with less talent than Dean Smith or Krzyzewski.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also died of cancer... what a n00b...

PeeWee

[Edge34]

This is just not funny. Maybe you still have time to delete this trash?

"Never give up. Never, ever give up."

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody mentioned he forgot Elton Brand yet??

[/ QUOTE ]

actually he's been mentioned twice in this thread

[/ QUOTE ]

Luol Deng is playing really well this year for a n00b to the NBA. Brand was the man in Cleveland. Haven't paid attention since he left. The NBA is weak compared to the College game IMO.

[Clarkmeister]

Knight is the ultimate hypocrite and frankly is a bad guy. He got lucky that he coached at IU because most places would have kicked him out long ago. The sad thing is even with all his transgressions, the only reason he's still not coaching there is because IU was so mediocre his last half-dozen years there.

There's no law at all that says one has to like both K and Knight. Knight is a despicable human being. K isn't.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Jimmy V did much more with less talent than Dean Smith or Krzyzewski.

[/ QUOTE ]

you can argue less talent, but you cant argue that he did more than Smith or Kryzewski

[__Q__]

[ QUOTE ]
Best Duke players of all time, and where are they now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree, North Carolina has produced way better NBA players then Duke has. Thats what really counts. But this got me thinking, why have a 65 team tournament at all? Wouldn't it be better to crown the school that produces the most NBA draft picks national champion? Or better yet, why not wait 5 years and give the trophy to the school that has the most players playing in the NBA allstar game?

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Best Duke players of all time, and where are they now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree, North Carolina has produced way better NBA players then Duke has. Thats what really counts. But this got me thinking, why have a 65 team tournament at all? Wouldn't it be better to crown the school that produces the most NBA draft picks national champion? Or better yet, why not wait 5 years and give the trophy to the school that has the most players playing in the NBA allstar game?

[/ QUOTE ]

beautiful

[WEASEL45]

[ QUOTE ]
Also a number of key role players in the NBA have come from UNC - Sheed, Brendan Haywood, Jeff McInnis, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rasheed a role player? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DeezNuts]

Why can't people just admit that Duke is far and away the best college program in the modern(1970+) era? It's not that big of a stretch.

You don't recruit players for "NBA qualities", you want a team that might stick around 3-4 years and play well. Duke has consistently outclassed every program for quite some time.

Even if you hate them and everything they stand for, you would have to be an idiot to not give them some grudging respect for what they have accomplished.

DN

[private joker]

Is it possible to like and respect both programs? I think Coach K is pretty brilliant, and the Duke record/dominance of the past 20 years is undeniable. I also think UNC boasts an incredible record of both championship seasons and star players who have gone on to pwn the NBA. Dean Smith was a genius. I'm impressed by both schools as two of the top college basketball programs in my lifetime.

Am I Switzerland? Or a p[/i]ussy?

(I do have a slight bias against Roy Williams because I went to B-ball camp one summer in 7th grade that was run by Williams [this was back in Kansas in the late '80s] and he was a dork and I didn't like him. But I still picked UNC to win it all this year).

[masse75]

All the hatin' on Duke and Coach K...go back in time 20 years, replace "K" with "Smith." Exact same hatin.'

As for Coach K not being able to take a program from the ground up, are you an idiot? Take a look at the Duke program from 81-83. Check your stats before opening your trap.

Knight got instant success in TT because he IS Coach Knight. Duke hired an unknown coach from Army...in 6 years, playing for the national championship, and went to 7 of the next 9 Final Fours.

[masse75]

Sorry, realize my rant was directed toward Dead.

[Uston]

Why can't people just admit that Duke is far and away the best college program in the modern(1970+) era?

Probably because they're equal to Kentucky in this time frame.