AQ Hand - Did I Overplay this? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : AQ Hand - Did I Overplay this?

jediael

03-17-2005, 03:07 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $3.
3 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

River: (11.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

cnfuzzd

03-17-2005, 03:11 AM

jediael is failing to mention that i am cutoff here, that we both know who the other one is, and that i a sexy bitch.

peace

john nickle

JoshuaD

03-17-2005, 03:11 AM

I call the raise on the turn and check/call the river.

The river card couldn't have help you. If you were winning on the turn, you're winning now,otherwise you're losing.

JoshuaD

03-17-2005, 03:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
jediael is failing to mention that i am cutoff here, that we both know who the other one is, and that i a sexy bitch.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Hrm. I don't think that changes my advice.

Shillx

03-17-2005, 03:17 AM

Why did you slow down on the river? You might as well keep banging your head into the pole on 5th street after you 3-bet the turn.

Brad

cnfuzzd

03-17-2005, 03:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jediael is failing to mention that i am cutoff here, that we both know who the other one is, and that i a sexy bitch.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Hrm. I don't think that changes my advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

thought it was pertinent...

peace

john nickle

JoshuaD

03-17-2005, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]

thought it was pertinent...

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I think it was. But in this particular hand, I don't think it matters in the end. Hero's still pushing too hard on the turn and river.

jediael

03-17-2005, 03:27 AM

Thanks for the Input!

I see that 3-betting the turn is a clear mistake and although I am not sure about betting the River.

So I guess bet/call turn und check/call River?

Yort Mada

03-17-2005, 03:31 AM

i would have folded this pre-flop unless i knew the player raised with lots of bad hands... if that were the case i would have 3 bet preflop.

i'd be scared of AK the entire time so i'd probly fold the flop and fold the turn for sure. That is, if i called preflop

JoshuaD

03-17-2005, 03:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So I guess bet/call turn und check/call River?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea. Do you see how the river card didn't improve your winning chances against a reasonable player?

jediael

03-17-2005, 03:37 AM

Oh I know /images/graemlins/smile.gif

1st of all, it was very likely he was stealing, so no fold.
Secondly, there was a clown (80% VP$IP etc) in the big blind, which I wanted to have in the hand. Does that make sense?

cnfuzzd

03-17-2005, 03:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i would have folded this pre-flop unless i knew the player raised with lots of bad hands... if that were the case i would have 3 bet preflop.

i'd be scared of AK the entire time so i'd probly fold the flop and fold the turn for sure. That is, if i called preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty weak tight thinking, at least pre flop and flop given that i essentially open raised from the cutoff. AQ becomes very playable in that position.

Also, so, no one else thinks AQ should be a 3bet pf here?

peace

john nickle

jediael

03-17-2005, 03:41 AM

I think it's a clear 3-bet if it wasn't for the guy in the big blind which I wanted to have in the hand.

The question is whether I should still bet eventhough it will likely fold out the BB. Hard to say, but to have a Fish out of position as part of that hand might be nice... I don't know!

Yort Mada

03-17-2005, 03:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh I know /images/graemlins/smile.gif

1st of all, it was very likely he was stealing, so no fold.
Secondly, there was a clown (80% VP$IP etc) in the big blind, which I wanted to have in the hand. Does that make sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you thought he was stealing you should have re-raised especially to get the bb out. I'd definatly want this heads up.

ThePenguin

03-17-2005, 03:54 AM

I would usually three-bet PF unless I knew CO is extremely tight and doesn't steal. Also, as for calling to get fishy BB along for the ride is a mistake. Your three-bet will get an extra SB from CO, maybe 2 from mp2, and you want to protect your AQ from a weird 2 pair. Unless you have a very very strong hand, you should always protect it, so I'm three-betting here to get heads up. As for the rest of your hand, I play it the same.

captZEEbo1

03-17-2005, 04:27 AM

3-bet pf, but given way hand plays out, don't 3-bet turn. What range of hands are you ahead of? He waited for turn to get more value into the hand....

jediael

03-17-2005, 04:57 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero calls, 3 folds, CO raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.

Final Pot: 13.66 BB

jediael

03-17-2005, 05:00 AM

Now that I see it, I played it really stupidly.

I guess bet Turn, call a Raise or even check/call Turn?

What about the River then?

Jack of Arcades

03-17-2005, 05:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
jediael is failing to mention that i am cutoff here, that we both know who the other one is, and that i a sexy bitch.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the case, jediael needs to bet/raise at every opportunity!

I kid. When you're c/r on the turn you're probably drawing dead but you might be up against A3/A4 given the aggressiveness of the CO. I'm getting to a cheap showdown.

3 bet preflop.

AngryCola

03-17-2005, 05:37 AM

I think you need to 3 bet preflop for the reasons already given by others.

Call his turn raise and check/call the river.

I'm guessing he had KK.

Aces_up07

03-17-2005, 06:57 AM

I'm gonna take a stab at this second one, I think I'm still learning, so dont take my opinion to be the best one, we'll see what others say too.

A read might help, but I am gonna assume a fairly loose fairly passive player, as that what I mostly see on party.

I don't like the open limp, I don't ever like to limp first in preflop, but once you do calling the raise is pretty automatic, right?

The flop bet seems fine to me.

Turn seems terrible to me. Why are you checking? Why would you want to check raise here? I bet out and see where I'm at. If he raises me I figure im in trouble. If he just calls I may take a free showdown, a nine kicker isn't great, but maybe thats me missing a value bet.

Again, why checkraise the river? Hitting your two pair doesn't seem like it helped, what would he three bet the turn with? Probably not AQ, AJ or AT. Could have been A7 and he hit his two pair, but is he really raising that preflop? Very possibly he has AK and hit two pair on the flop, or even a set all of which still have you beat. The range of hands he probably had to 3 bet seem to have you beat most of the time, so I think its check/call here if you aren't willing to fold. I hate folding when I hit my kicker on the river.

Thats all just my two cents on the hand, I'm willing to hear where my logic may be flawed, like I said I'm still learning and haven't even posted any of my hands yet.

PancakeBoy

03-17-2005, 07:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna take a stab at this second one, I think I'm still learning, so dont take my opinion to be the best one, we'll see what others say too.

A read might help, but I am gonna assume a fairly loose fairly passive player, as that what I mostly see on party.

I don't like the open limp, I don't ever like to limp first in preflop, but once you do calling the raise is pretty automatic, right?

The flop bet seems fine to me.

Turn seems terrible to me. Why are you checking? Why would you want to check raise here? I bet out and see where I'm at. If he raises me I figure im in trouble. If he just calls I may take a free showdown, a nine kicker isn't great, but maybe thats me missing a value bet.

Again, why checkraise the river? Hitting your two pair doesn't seem like it helped, what would he three bet the turn with? Probably not AQ, AJ or AT. Could have been A7 and he hit his two pair, but is he really raising that preflop? Very possibly he has AK and hit two pair on the flop, or even a set all of which still have you beat. The range of hands he probably had to 3 bet seem to have you beat most of the time, so I think its check/call here if you aren't willing to fold. I hate folding when I hit my kicker on the river.

Thats all just my two cents on the hand, I'm willing to hear where my logic may be flawed, like I said I'm still learning and haven't even posted any of my hands yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you reading the same hand??

EDIT: Whoops sorry didn't see there was another hand posted

PancakeBoy

03-17-2005, 07:03 AM

I think you have to fold the turn here. What is the guy waiting until the turn to raise you when the 3h hits??

PancakeBoy

03-17-2005, 07:04 AM

Poor limp up front i think....

Check-raise turn is really bad IMO. Bet out and fold to a raise.

chief444

03-17-2005, 09:19 AM

AQ I'm assuming is in pretty good shape against John's range of raising hands in this situation. I'm 3-betting preflop.

I call down after the turn raise. There just aren't many worse hands I can think of that he would raise the turn with.

27offsooot

03-17-2005, 09:38 AM

Easy 3-bet PF. I don't get the flop c/r, maybe you can explain the rationale behind it (Is it to eliminate gutshots?). I would prefer leading the flop and trying to get the bb to contribute dead money. Once I am raised on the turn, I'm calling down.

chief444

03-17-2005, 09:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get the flop c/r, maybe you can explain the rationale behind it (Is it to eliminate gutshots?). I would prefer leading the flop and trying to get the bb to contribute dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.

Schizo

03-17-2005, 08:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yea. Do you see how the river card didn't improve your winning chances against a reasonable player?

[/ QUOTE ]

What if CO was buying a button with A3s, A4s? Is that a possibility?