Fold top turned MP to out of the blue bet?

[thesharpie]

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero ???

Not much of a read on MP1 apart from he once checked the button on the flop with a set...

[deepsquat]

Id prob call one bet on the turn and fold the river UI. Your pair of 10's may not even be good if utg has J10 or A10.

Smallish pot, pick a better spot.

[thesharpie]

Hero doesn't have odds to call the turn if he's behind, which he is if he's going to fold the river UI.

The best you can have is 5 outs, and this isn't discounting any. There's also a very slim chance UTG+1 will reraise.

If there was a couple more BB in the pot I think it'd be worth a call if you're planning to fold the river UI.

[bottomset]

what are you trying to accomplish raising this flop??
what was your reasoning behind it?

unexpected turn bets often don't mean what they are representing, if he isn't one to bet a variety of hands you prob can safely fold here only getting 6.2/1

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
what are you trying to accomplish raising this flop??
what was your reasoning behind it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm likely ahead and knocking out the BB who may hold a pair is a nice thought. I thought raising this flop was standard, anyone else disagree?

[caggin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm likely ahead and knocking out the BB who may hold a pair is a nice thought. I thought raising this flop was standard, anyone else disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the pot were bigger, then I'd take this line. But with this small pot, and a marginal hand, I think I fold.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
Id prob call one bet on the turn and fold the river UI. Your pair of 10's may not even be good if utg has J10 or A10.

Smallish pot, pick a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're calling the turn, it has to be because you think there's at least some chance you're ahead -- you don't have odds otherwise. Time to make a decision. When we call the turn, we're calling the river unless bad things happen.

Comes down to our read. If we believe him, we should fold.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what are you trying to accomplish raising this flop??
what was your reasoning behind it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm likely ahead and knocking out the BB who may hold a pair is a nice thought. I thought raising this flop was standard, anyone else disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call the flop and see how the turn plays out.

[Shillx]

I dunno what I would do here. I like calling on the flop (and raising most turn cards) in this spot though. The problem with folding imo is that MP1 might be putting us on a flush draw here. The problem with playing on is that we need to raise. So we are basically risking 2 BB to usually win 7.2 BB (we check behind on the river). If UTG+1 coldcalls then we are doing it to win 9.5 BB. Sometimes we will get 3-bet however and then we will usually have to call that unless we know that a 3-bet means that we are drawing dead. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

You have a really tough decision here. Even if he has a king, we will draw out some of the time. I might pull the trigger on a raise here although I really would like the pot to be larger. Honestly I think both a raise and a fold are okay in this spot.

Brad

[Chris Daddy Cool]

folding this turn is fine

[_bustedflush_]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno what I would do here. I like calling on the flop (and raising most turn cards) in this spot though. The problem with folding imo is that MP1 might be putting us on a flush draw here. The problem with playing on is that we need to raise. So we are basically risking 2 BB to usually win 7.2 BB (we check behind on the river). If UTG+1 coldcalls then we are doing it to win 9.5 BB. Sometimes we will get 3-bet however and then we will usually have to call that unless we know that a 3-bet means that we are drawing dead. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

You have a really tough decision here. Even if he has a king, we will draw out some of the time. I might pull the trigger on a raise here although I really would like the pot to be larger. Honestly I think both a raise and a fold are okay in this spot.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post. Like most guys in this thread my initial thoughts were fold or call (leaning toward fold). So now I want to understand the raise idea. Is it to get the hand HU and a free card on the river? Is our plan to fold to a river bet UI? If so, I guess this beats call-call because it gets UTG+1 out of the hand. Am I close?

[sunek]

I believe it was a wise move to raise the flop for several reasons. After the flop you probably have the best hand. There are 47 cards unaccounted for. Out these 24 (about half of them) can be scary (harts and cards with value over 10). Which again means you in round figures have a 50 % chance to win the hand (or am I miscalculating?). So by raising the flop you do two things:

You protect your hand

If you win the hand the pot will be bigger

I think you were playing right – there is absolutely no reason to give free cards away.

/sunek