8 8-hand played by MTT-newbie.

[kongo_totte]

I play mostly cash games, sometimes SNG:s and barely ever MTT:s (this is maybe my 5th MTT, and my first live one). So excuse me if this is a no-brainer.

30-player live NLHE MTT 1000 starting chips w/ unlimited rebuys during the first 90 minutes (if you have less than 1 000). A couple of hours have gone by and there are 25 left in the tournament, but alot are about to drop out soon.

I had been dealt crap and only seen 1 flop all day (early double up). My stack is down to 2 000 after a battle of the blinds which I had to fold pre-flop after investing quite alot /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

Average stack is about 4 000 and the blinds are 100/200. Table is loose/passive, w/ a couple of LAGs and weak-tight me is on the button w/ 400. MP (villian)is loose but seems to be decent. UTG+1 will raise any ace from any position but fold if played back at.

LAG UTG+1 makes it 600, loose-passive in MP calls and it's folded to me w/ 8 8.

Fold or push?

[valenzuela]

damn you..now I feel like the terrible player I am...ehhh..I suppose a call ain that bad...

[kongo_totte]

Well, as I said, I'm not tournament player, but I can't imagining putting in 3/10 of my when there isn't a single flop i'd like can be correct in any form of HE.

[valenzuela]

You have to push any ace-less flop IMO.

[Mike Gallo]

You have enough chips left to play one more orbit. Table is loose/passive, w/ a couple of LAGs and weak-tight me is on the button w/ 400.
If I read this correctly and you had T400, I would surely go all in preflop.

[kongo_totte]

Sorry, I have 2 000 left, not 400.

[kuro]

What are the stack sizes of the villains in question?

I think you have to push preflop. You're probably around a 55:45 favorite to the range of hands that either villain has and the pots laying you good odds provided you only get one caller.

[schwza]

if you're fairly confident in your reads, i'd push. you probably won't win without a showdown, but you'll probably get the money in as a 55-45 with plenty of pot odds overlay. (i'm guessing you'll fold one out and get called by the other's overs).

some chance you'll wind up against a big pair (lags get cards too), but that's balanced by the fact that you might get called by A7 or 55 or something.

[betgo]

I would probably call and push on most flops. You could also push preflop, but the initial raiser will almost certainly call.

[ QUOTE ]
My stack is down to 2 000 after a battle of the blinds which I had to fold pre-flop after investing quite alot


[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like you probably needed to call the push on this hand. You were probably fairly pot committed and there is no reason to put the other blind on a big pair.

[2005]

Ugg, am I horribly weak, my first instinct was to fold... Lemme think about it a bit more. I know for sure I'm not calling.

Gavin

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably call and push on most flops. You could also push preflop, but the initial raiser will almost certainly call.

[ QUOTE ]
My stack is down to 2 000 after a battle of the blinds which I had to fold pre-flop after investing quite alot


[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like you probably needed to call the push on this hand. You were probably fairly pot committed and there is no reason to put the other blind on a big pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was no push on that hand. I felt I could out play a huy with crap, but the action I was facing could not meen anything but A A, K K, QQ ,A K against that particular player.

[censored] happens

Also, waiting until the flop to push doesn't make any sense to me. Almost always an over card will fall and I will be abosolutely clueless. Better get as much folding equity as possible before the flop rather than waitning and letting them hit their TPNK J To.

[valenzuela]

Its math time!..yupi!!!!!!

Ok pot is 1800 and you have T1400..meaning that if u dont get called 55% of the time you will win chips on the long run. Thats why I like the idea of pushing ace-less flops.

[adanthar]

If you push, how likely is it that you go up against 2 people instead of 1?

If you can narrow it down to 1 I instapush here with the dead chips.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Its math time!..yupi!!!!!!

Ok pot is 1800 and you have T1400..meaning that if u dont get called 55% of the time you will win chips on the long run. Thats why I like the idea of pushing ace-less flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Why ace less? I have no clue of they're holdings? Just because UTG+1 may raise any ace doesn't not mean he won't raise K Q, any PP.

BTW, MP seems good, so he might have noticed UTG+1 raising standards and is calling w/ a lesser hand than usual.

On the flop, I have atleast 2 guys to act before me, and since they know me as weak/tight (mostly because of my cold cards during the day) one of them will most likely fire the flop. Now, I am calling away my stack with absolutely no clue of where I am, and I don't like that.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
If you push, how likely is it that you go up against 2 people instead of 1?

If you can narrow it down to 1 I instapush here with the dead chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, my hopes was to fold out both, but I was quite sure UTG+1 would fold most of the time, unless this was one of the few times he raised a legitimate hand. Since I had played so few hand, I hoped MP would fear my sudden agression and fold aswell. However, I think he is calling most of the time, maybe folding 99-TT, or QJ (which I don't think he would have called w/ in the first place.

[locutus2002]

I like calling because:
a) you have position, and have been playing tight, and have short stack; it will be pretty hard to bluff into you without hitting the flop.
b) many flops will be good for you to push after the flop.
I also think you will not thin the field by pushing as players will expect you to make a play short-stacked.

[2005]

[ QUOTE ]
b) many flops will be good for you to push after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

which ones?

Gavin

[locutus2002]

about 1/3 of the flops wont hav a or k or q or j

[2005]

1/3 is alot? If you're going to play this hand, just push preflop and hope one of the 2 folds.

Gavin

[Rick Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
about 1/3 of the flops wont hav a or k or q or j

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to recheck your math here

[edfilan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
about 1/3 of the flops wont hav a or k or q or j

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to recheck your math here

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the math is correct, but still, the last thing I'm doing here is calling 1/3 of my stack with such a vulnerable hand. Without a shadow of a doubt, it's push or fold, and that's entirely read dependent.

[kongo_totte]

As I said, I don't play alot of MTT:s, but common HE-knowledge should rule out calling IMO. I pushed, UTG+1 insta-folded, MP thought for an eternity and finally called and show 9 9 /images/graemlins/frown.gif. MHING

UTG+1 later told me he had A 8o.

[curtains]

I would probably fold.