Call the river? AJ sooted

[zuluking]

Double paired boards always give me fits. Is he bluffing on the river? Is the pot enough to call with my A? Should I have bet the turn?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero...?

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

[Peter Harris]

well, i know you did call. the final pot says you did.

I probably do, this is an easy one for UTG to steal and the gonk could be betting an 8 here.

[jaxUp]

I call, seriously expecting to see a split a third of the time. People will bluff at these all day, as well as value bet their A high. (don't include final pot size, it negates your cut off action).

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
well, i know you did call. the final pot says you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops.

[zeropotential]

im fireing again on the turn instead of the freecard...
what does everyone feel about this?

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
im fireing again on the turn instead of the freecard...
what does everyone feel about this?

[/ QUOTE ]


VERY read-dependent. Against an unknown, I might mix it up, checking about 70% of the time.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
im fireing again on the turn instead of the freecard...
what does everyone feel about this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Randomize it. Personally I go about 50/50 right now. The caveat is that you have to call the river when you check behind on the turn. You should only try to induce a bluff with hands that have showdown value though. Don't check behind with JT on a AKxx board and then call a river bet. I would be much more inclined to bet in this spot since I have little showdown value.

Brad

[Shillx]

I have found that people bluff to much after you show weakness on the turn or river. People will be quick to check their weak made hands behind (or check/call the river with them) but any hand that doesn't have a chance of winning gets auto bet.

You line is fine. Betting the turn with the intention of checking behind is also fine. I like to mix it up in these spots. The key though is that you always call the river after you check the turn (unless your hand doesn't have showdown value). But in that case, I would be betting the turn the vast majority of the time with hopes of folding him out.

Brad

[shadow29]

Either Turn: Bet, River: Check
Or Turn: Check, River: Call

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
You should only try to induce a bluff with hands that have showdown value though.......I would be much more inclined to bet in this spot since I have little showdown value.


[/ QUOTE ]

excellent points.

i think betting the turn at a higher frequency is probably better, since you increase your chances of winning the pot outright with a bet on 4th street. unless im up against players that check raise frequently or even know how to check raise ill be more cautious against them (especially in multiway pots), but my general line is bet bet check. if i think the players are drawing its bet bet bet. sometimes ill probably get laughed at for firing the last one, but it gets me tons of calls and overcalls in future hands from the players with dwindling hopes and dreams.

[zeropotential]

On the turn:
[ QUOTE ]
Randomize it. Personally I go about 50/50 right now. The caveat is that you have to call the river when you check behind on the turn. You should only try to induce a bluff with hands that have showdown value though. Don't check behind with JT on a AKxx board and then call a river bet. I would be much more inclined to bet in this spot since I have little showdown value.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the best points of the night. Thanks brad.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
Either Turn: Bet, River: Check
Or Turn: Check, River: Call

[/ QUOTE ]

The good thing about Turn: bet, River: check, is that your opponent might just fold the turn, giving you another way to win.