Thin... Just Thin.

[Kevin J]

That's the only way to describe each of my plays in this hand. My question is, were they SO thin that they were bad?

10-20 with a 1/2 kill.

I posted a $15 1/2 kill in the sb. Folded to the button who raised. I had Jh,Tc.

*Is this crappy hand worth taking a flop out of position against a blatent steal raise? The bb was a tight player and I didn't think he'd play without a good hand since his odds were now being reduced $70 to $20 (if I just call, instead of $50 to $10), due to the kill. This takes away one of my reasons to re-raise, right?

I just called. The bb folded. Heads-up.

The flop came 8h,7c,3h, leaving me with two overs, a runner-runner flush, and a gutshot draw to the stones. I checked, he bet and I called.

*I'm not even sure I want to make a pair of jacks or tens, but if he'd raise with Ax, Kx or Qxs, is my call Ok?

The turn was an Ah.

*If I hadn't picked up a flush draw I might have semi-bluffed this card. But now, I didn't want to get raised and have to wonder if I might be drawing dead even if a heart hit (I also wasn't thrilled with the prospect of risking two $30 bets if I missed).

So I checked, he bet and I called. How bad is that?

The river was a 5h and I checked again! I still wasn't sure I had the best hand and if he didn't have a heart he'd probably fold. He bet, I called and he threw his hand away.

Is it even possible I played this hand Ok without ever putting in a bet? If you think I should've folded... Where? pre-flop, flop or turn? Thankfully, I was playing in the one (of two) public card rooms in my area, that didn't require me to show my hand in this situation...

Thanks in advance.

Of course I will tell you thats it's fine to play a hand without putting in a bet.

Your pre-flop call is marginal, but if he would raise with Qxs, he can't be all that tight, so I don't know what to say about it. Reraising might be better, but if the BB is not likely to play, then calling is fine. That's an important if.

On the turn, I think betting is very bad - you won't be believed, and he will only fold nothing, which he will also fold on the end (and you can easily afford a free card for him). What betting might do is have him call with a naked heart and a Q or K in his hand, and then you will often check-check the end (fearing he has something, since he called) and lose a no-bet showdown. Save the bluff bet for the end, I think.

Check -raising, however, may be very, very good. I would have strongly considered a check-raise, which will often with the pot.

On the end, I like your play. Still no reason to think he has a calling - strength hand, and he will have a hard time calling a bet after you called on the turn and bet the 4th heart. I woud consier bluffing if you missed.

Just my 2 cents.

[bruce]

Interesting! Preflop all three your choices are pretty close. I prefer three betting and
leading on the flop hoping to pick up the pot. Having called I prefer checkraising trying
to represent a pair having not raised preflop. I think on the turn you maximize your chances
of winning by checkraising. If your opponent doesn't have an Ace or heart it is hard for
him to call. If you are called you still have outs. On the river I don't know what the best
play is, but they can't be too far apart. If your opponent will call without a heart I would
bet. If he will raise without a heart I would check.

Bruce

[Zele]

I agree that your holding warranted more action on the flop. I think a semi-bluff bet is good, and a semi-bluff check-raise is very good here. Also, I would have bet out on the turn. 3-flush cards and and Ace. You'll most likely either win right there or be raised and feel comfortable folding.

[Kevin J]

Thanks Dan-

Good point about check/raising the turn. But if he calls, I assume bet anything but a heart on the end? This hand seems screwy /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Kevin J]

"You'll most likely either win right there or be raised and feel comfortable folding."

What if he'd raise the turn with AXo after having made a pair of aces? Or.. Semi-bluff raise a lone Kh or Qh? Then again he could have AXh (bigger or smaller than a jack). I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable folding OR calling a turn raise...

[Kevin J]

Bruce-

I like your aggressive strategy. In this case, my opponent was also very aggressive and a tough player to boot. I didn't want to get out-played (or out-play myself) as sometimes happens when I'm out of position against a tough opponent. Does this ever happen to you? If so, would it affect your strategy and maybe cause you to choose a less aggressive line?

[DJA]

I would have considered check raising the flop... You have 6 outs to top pair, and 4 outs to the nuts... plus a backdoor draw... You may win it right here... I would tend to check raise the flop and bet out on the turn. With my flush draw A scare card.

Just My Thoughts,

[bruce]

If I am up against a tough player out of position folding BTF may be the best course of
action. JT is a very marginal hand. Against this type of player most of the time when you
don't flop anything you are going to lose. If you play back at him on the flop things
become very muddled if he reraises you. In general when I am up against a super aggressive
player in this type of spot I will probably pass BTF. If my opponent is capable of folding
on the flop I thing three betting it BTF and leading is the best course of action esp.
if you have a tight image. You will both probably flop nothing and since you are first
to act you have a good chance of taking it right then and there. Checking and calling
is not one of my favorite ways to play a hand.

Bruce

[budman]

I think your play post-flop was very reasonable. I love JT, but won't usually play it unless I have at least three opponents.

With a tricky aggressive opponent, check-calling along gets him to throw chips in even when he has the worst of it.

I might have raised him on the turn just to slow him down, but then would have a real problem if he reraised me. Even if I called his reraise on the turn, my check on the river would draw a bet out of him. Without the nut flush or even the second nut flush I would have a very reluctant call.

I think you played this hand well.