How many people supporting the Iraq war today?

[sirio11]

Could anybody provide links to know the war approval in different countries?

I can't find any information. I just find the following polls in the US (http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=396861) , but would like to know the approval ratings in different countries.

For my conservative friends, how does it feel to be in the minority? Hell, even in the US, you're not the majority anymore. What do you think of this? Has occurred to you that maybe you're wrong in this issue and most of the planet is right? Do you care?

[zaxx19]

With each passing day .....considering whats going on in the middle east lately im guessing most war supporters feel more and more correct and or vindicated.

I was personally pretty ambivalent about it at the time...

Not sure which world you are looking at.

[cardcounter0]

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/2y/x/xom.gif

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
For my conservative friends, how does it feel to be in the minority? Hell, even in the US, you're not the majority anymore. What do you think of this? Has occurred to you that maybe you're wrong in this issue and most of the planet is right? Do you care?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.

I'm not the least bit concerned about this poll. Bush's approach to fighting the War on Terrorism was radical and hyper-aggressive. That type of approach on any issue, but especially a war issue, is always going to create strong divisions.

I want my President pushing an agenda which achieves victory rather than one which achieves popularity. That's why I like Bush and never really cared for Clinton.

[Broken Glass Can]

Doing the right thing is more important than transient polling. And as Dynasty said, the only important poll occurred in November.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]


The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was not a poll into the merits of the war.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was not a poll into the merits of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

It most certainly was.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was not a poll into the merits of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]um, okay... Did you pay attention to our Presidential campaign at all?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I want my President pushing an agenda which achieves victory rather than one which achieves popularity. That's why I like Bush and never really cared for Clinton.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was not a poll into the merits of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it was, unfortunately. A lot of Americans just care about fighting terra and stopping gays from getting married I guess.

[CCass]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For my conservative friends, how does it feel to be in the minority? Hell, even in the US, you're not the majority anymore. What do you think of this? Has occurred to you that maybe you're wrong in this issue and most of the planet is right? Do you care?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.

I'm not the least bit concerned about this poll. Bush's approach to fighting the War on Terrorism was radical and hyper-aggressive. That type of approach on any issue, but especially a war issue, is always going to create strong divisions.

I want my President pushing an agenda which achieves victory rather than one which achieves popularity. That's why I like Bush and never really cared for Clinton.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to add to this thread, but Dynasty said it better than I ever could.

[Dead]

You said in another thread that you manage government housing. How does that square with your Republican or Libertarian views?

[NotInchoateHand1]

Did you notice the overlap between supporters of the war and morons who still think that Saddam directly orchestrated 9/11? Outside of the lunatic fringe, it seems that all those still in favor of the war on those moronic enough to believe in WMD and Al-Queda/Iraq connections.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
morons who still think that Saddam directly orchestrated 9/11

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like BGC and Jaxmike?

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you notice the overlap between supporters of the war and morons who still think that Saddam directly orchestrated 9/11? Outside of the lunatic fringe, it seems that all those still in favor of the war on those moronic enough to believe in WMD and Al-Queda/Iraq connections.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm.... No. I don't believe in WMD and Al-Qaida + Iraq connections. And I really like the war as a strategic move, a correct move. It's +EV. Yeah, I'd love a better postwar plan, and a year or so back, but Iraq can win.

Right now, though, you can't pull out of Iraq. No possible way.

Also note the people who supported the war that have already posted in the thread.

[natedogg]

You DO realize that the popularity of a thing has absolutely nothing to do with its correctness, don't you?

natedogg

[NotInchoateHand1]

Say, a popularly elected president who is absolutely incorrect on most counts?

[Dead]

The drug war is popular, but it is not correct.

Gun control is popular, but it is not correct.

Preemptive wars are popular, but they are not correct.

I could go on all day.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Say, a popularly elected president who is absolutely incorrect on most counts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Natedogg is anti-war homie.

[natedogg]

[ QUOTE ]
Say, a popularly elected president who is absolutely incorrect on most counts?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that if a majority of the populace holds an opinion, that has no bearing on whether or not they are correct. This is elementary. For most that is.

natedogg

[natedogg]

[ QUOTE ]
Say, a popularly elected president who is absolutely incorrect on most counts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, the above statement applies to just about every president since Lincoln.

natedogg

[NotInchoateHand1]

I wasn't ragging on you---I agree that a popularity contest is of little significance, I was just employing the staunchest example from recent memory.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say, a popularly elected president who is absolutely incorrect on most counts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, the above statement applies to just about every president since Lincoln.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice hand.

You are not a bad guy Drunk Nolte. At least you have principles, unlike some of the conservatives on here.

[lehighguy]

One of the most appealing things about Bush is that he doesn't care about opinion polls. Mob mentality is not democracy, and majorities are not always right. If being in the majority made you right then gays would never be able to marry, southern blacks would never have been given rights, etc.

Can the world be wrong about things. Damn straight it can. The world didn't think Germany or Japan were big problems. The world is full of the same flawed people we have in America.

Using public opinion for a gauge of morality or justice is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The public thought pet rocks were great and that we can have more government services but pay fewer taxes.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
If being in the majority made you right then gays would never be able to marry

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush bases his opposition to gay marriage on the fact that most Americans oppose it. He doesn't really give a [censored] about gay marriage. He ran on it as a side issue to rile up the fundies who DO give a [censored] about it.

[lehighguy]

Exactly my point, public opinion is a useless tool for morality.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly my point, public opinion is a useless tool for morality.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you said that one of the most appealing things about Bush is that he doesn't care about opinion polls. That's bs. He started pumping the gay marriage issue when he realized how much Americans were against it and realized he could use it as a campaign issue for Republicans... thus invalidating your entire argument.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
I could go on all day.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Felix_Nietsche]

For my conservative friends, how does it feel to be in the minority?
************************************************** *
Part of being a man is to stand by your convictions and not be swayed whether your in the minority of opinions or the majority. If your a teenager in high school, you have an excuse...but by age 30 there is no excuse to be a wimp and base you beliefs on what others think.

Hell, even in the US, you're not the majority anymore. What do you think of this?
*********************************************
Caring what the French, Germans, Belgiums, and Russians think of US foreign policy is not high on my list of priorities. In fact these governments broke every UN rule to sell military equipment to Iraq despite promising not to. Why should I care what liars/cheats think of the USA?
But on the other hand, I do appreciate the courage of the Eastern European nations who support the USA in Iraq despite Bonn/Paris/Brussells attempts to bully these nations with the EU.

Has occurred to you that maybe you're wrong in this issue and most of the planet is right?
**********************************************
We won't know the full ramifications of the Iraq policy for several YEARS but based on what is occuring in Libya, Palestine, Lebanon, and the sucessful Iraqi vote....I'm feeling pretty good about the results so far.
HAS IT OCCURRED TO YOU...that perhaps your visions of doom-and-gloom are a bit premature?
The US soldiers are excited by their world changing mission and OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Bush43. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Do you care?
*************************************************
What others think?
Somewhat, but it does not govern my principles. Part of being an adult is knowing your core values and having the courage to be true to your values despite what people think. I have found no matter you do some people won't like it so your better off doing what you think is right.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Can the world be wrong about things? Damn straight it can

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, all countries should do away with the strict aplication of majority rule in foreign policy. This is interesting.


[ QUOTE ]
One of the most appealing things about Bush is that he doesn't care about opinion polls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite the opposite. Bush actually has run both campaigns with his camp's ears firmly on the ground for public opinion. Karl Rove run a strictly poll-driven campaign. He identified early on that the GOP, in order to win, did not have to move "centerward" (in order to "capture the "swinging, moderate vote") but, rather (no pun intended), ...to the Right! The issue of perceived "moral values" and how strongly Americans felt about 'em was identified through a series of polls run by the Rove staff.


[ QUOTE ]
Mob mentality is not democracy, and majorities are not always right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Foreign policy is different from citizen's rights and freedoms. In the former, as in many other issues, majority rules. In the latter, the rights of minorities should be protected in the most stringest manner.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could go on all day.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

linky (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unfunny)

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
morons who still think that Saddam directly orchestrated 9/11

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like BGC and Jaxmike?

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep making it up, dude.

Saddam had no material connection to 9/11.

We went into Iraq for other reasons and it was the right thing to do.


Your trying to make the phony connection is just a debating tactic. You've been exposed.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was not a poll into the merits of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]um, okay... Did you pay attention to our Presidential campaign at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was being dumb. Thought he was referring to the Iraqi elections.

[lehighguy]

In response to Dead, I can't see how invading Iraq could possibly have been a move to get popular support. Its expensive, costly, divisive, and has a constant stream of bad press. Bush was extremely popular post 9/11, and could have won the election much easier without Iraq. The only reason to invade is because he though it was the right thing to do. You can debate if he made the right decision, but quite frankly it was a self-sacrificial one in terms of public opinion.

More importantly, taking the W comment out of the picture, the point is that public opinion and truth have a very indirect correlation and one is not a good indicator for the other.

And leaders should base foriegn policy on thier believes rather then public opinion sometimes. FDR wanted to build up the military in response to German and Japanese aggression, the public said it wasn't thier problem. Large groups of people in Japan wanted to rearm in the 50's and kick the American military out, but the Japanese leadership felt it was better to remain under American protection and work on the economy. There are many other examples I can give.

And I would stop to think for a second about the fact that other countries operate on realist foriegn policy principles. France cares about France, Russia cares about Russia, etc. What is "right for the world" and what is "right for country X" do not always match up. So to use other counties stance on things as a moral arguement is spurious at best.

[zaxx19]

In other words, all countries should do away with the strict aplication of majority rule in foreign policy. This is interesting.

Im curious what the hell strict majority rule is.....and how it applies to the US's foreign policies??

[lehighguy]

If by strict you mean leaders do whatever the majority wants without question then yes, I think that's a good idea.

[zaxx19]

You obviously dont like our system of representative democracy we have had in the U.S. for the last say...225+ yrs..

Leaders arent elected to take polls and then make decisions.

They are elected bc they are well suited to lead.

[lehighguy]

Your confusing me a whole lot with your statements.

I'm trying to tell you that leaders are meant to do mroe then take polls and do what they say. Your arguement, that they should just base thier policies on popular opinion, seems utterly rediculous to me.

[zaxx19]

We agree on this somewhere we got our wires crossed....

[lehighguy]

k

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
The only popularity poll that mattered took place last November.

[/ QUOTE ]
And the thing that mattered most in last November's poll was the widespread perception among Bush voters that Iraq was in fact stockpiled with WMD, in the absence of which Bush would never have gone to war. It vindicated Bush's use of deception to undermine democracy by proving that it can work.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not the least bit concerned about this poll. Bush's approach to fighting the War on Terrorism was radical and hyper-aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]
Funding dictatorships and Israeli terror in the Middle East, invading a country with no record of supporter terror against the U.S., putting contra terror supporters on the NSC and cabinet staff, fighting domestic anti-terror measures when the chemical industry complained, giving Pakistan a pass after it pardoned the top scientists who passed on nuclear technology to Libya. You know, a hyper-aggressive approach to the War on Terrorism. Or perhaps you mean THE WAR ON TERRORISM.

[Chris Alger]

International support for the war generally hovered around the low 2-digits, based mostly on polls conducted before the degree of administration lying about WMD came to light. Since the invasion, according to a recent Pew study, international respect for Bush and U.S. policy has plummeted. Polls in some Arab countries show support for the U.S. at about the margin of error, indicating virtually unanimous opposition to the war. Here's a link (http://www.eriposte.com/war_peace/iraq/iraq_war_worldwide_support.htm).

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
For my conservative friends, how does it feel to be in the minority?
************************************************** *
Part of being a man is to stand by your convictions and not be swayed whether your in the minority of opinions or the majority. If your a teenager in high school, you have an excuse...but by age 30 there is no excuse to be a wimp and base you beliefs on what others think.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about showing a little respect Mr. Felix N.; I could say exactly the same about you; I could say that you base your beliefs on what others (Bush, Rumsfield, Hanity, Russ, Fox News) think and want you to think. This helps nothing to the discussion, I know is hard for people like you to show class and respect for other beliefs, most of your kind are used to bully and insult, I should say that's your primary and primitive way to be involved in discussions. I still try to interchange ideas with some of you, since I think is necessary for this country and for a better world. But I'm getting tired. Me and most of my liberals friends were the ones with the courage to stand for what we believe. You were in the majority (remember the 80%) following the crowd and not questioning anything from the leaders of this country, that's being a man? You were the ones who followed the easy path. We are the ones who hasn't changed a iota in our positions about the war. You have changed constantly in the last 2 years, in that time was 9-11 and Al-Qaeda conections, then the nuclear threat, then the WMD, and now is your endless love for the Iraqi people and democracy; all that change sounds wimpy to me. Time has proven us right, or at least almost 35% of the people that thought like you has changed their mind, almost none of our 20% has done that. Why do you think thats the case? Any clue?

Obviously our definitions of courage and being a man are way too different. God forbid me to teach my 2 sons that courage is to follow your leaders positions without questioning of any kind. Some in this thread have said that the only poll that matters took place in November, and that show how small they think about themselves, that's all their political significance; they just vote and then follow directions, wow, takes a lot of courage to do that. The world is gonna keep changing for good, you conservatives don't like change, are afraid of it, but that's about the only constant in the universe. The world will continue to change, but you followers have no place in history.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]

But on the other hand, I do appreciate the courage of the Eastern European nations who support the USA in Iraq despite Bonn/Paris/Brussells attempts to bully these nations with the EU.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you are a complete cynic or just don't have a clue.
Do you know that most of the people in the eastern european countries oppose the war?
Why do you think some of their leaders took positions against the will of its people? Because of the ultimate courage to stand against the "bullies" of France and Germany or because of the "bullying" of the US. (Hint: What bully has the most power?)

[ThaSaltCracka]

another potential reason.... perhaps some of these Eastern European Nations are trying to earn some power of their own. Following around the passive EU members doesn't get them a lot of cred around the world( I realize the same can be said for following the U.S.) But a country like Poland is trying to emerge in the 21st century as a world power(or atleast its leaders are hoping they will).

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For my conservative friends, how does it feel to be in the minority?
************************************************** *
Part of being a man is to stand by your convictions and not be swayed whether your in the minority of opinions or the majority. If your a teenager in high school, you have an excuse...but by age 30 there is no excuse to be a wimp and base you beliefs on what others think.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about showing a little respect Mr. Felix N.; I could say exactly the same about you; I could say that you base your beliefs on what others (Bush, Rumsfield, Hanity, Russ, Fox News) think and want you to think. This helps nothing to the discussion, I know is hard for people like you to show class and respect for other beliefs, most of your kind are used to bully and insult, I should say that's your primary and primitive way to be involved in discussions. I still try to interchange ideas with some of you, since I think is necessary for this country and for a better world. But I'm getting tired. Me and most of my liberals friends were the ones with the courage to stand for what we believe. You were in the majority (remember the 80%) following the crowd and not questioning anything from the leaders of this country, that's being a man? You were the ones who followed the easy path. We are the ones who hasn't changed a iota in our positions about the war. You have changed constantly in the last 2 years, in that time was 9-11 and Al-Qaeda conections, then the nuclear threat, then the WMD, and now is your endless love for the Iraqi people and democracy; all that change sounds wimpy to me. Time has proven us right, or at least almost 35% of the people that thought like you has changed their mind, almost none of our 20% has done that. Why do you think thats the case? Any clue?

Obviously our definitions of courage and being a man are way too different. God forbid me to teach my 2 sons that courage is to follow your leaders positions without questioning of any kind. Some in this thread have said that the only poll that matters took place in November, and that show how small they think about themselves, that's all their political significance; they just vote and then follow directions, wow, takes a lot of courage to do that. The world is gonna keep changing for good, you conservatives don't like change, are afraid of it, but that's about the only constant in the universe. The world will continue to change, but you followers have no place in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perchance, did you have CCR or Rage playing in the background while you typed this post? Jeez, get over yourself buddy. Slapping a "Bush lied" bumper sticker on your car doesn't make you courageous.

Why do you assume that supporters of the war just swallowed what the administration told them like slobbering morons? Is it possible that some of us researched the issue, read many opinions on it, and came to our own conclusions? I'll give you a hint: it is.

[natedogg]

Again, this means nothing. In technical terms, this is known as an "appeal to popularity".

natedogg

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you assume that supporters of the war just swallowed what the administration told them like slobbering morons? Is it possible that some of us researched the issue, read many opinions on it, and came to our own conclusions? I'll give you a hint: it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you. I don't assume that all of the supporters of the war, but I do assume that most of them.

[sirio11]

I agree with you Nate, that popularity does not imply correctness.

I don't agree with you that the opinion of the majority of the people in the world means nothing.

I don't agree with some of the posters about not caring about everybody else outside the US. I even think that this is a dangerous position that jeopardize our survival as a civilization.

[Felix_Nietsche]

"What about showing a little respect Mr. Felix N."
*********************************************
I don't respect opinion polls. Opinion polls just given information that is quite perishable. I do respect having core values and sticking to your principles. That is one reason why people respect Bush more than John "I voted for the $87b before I voted against it" Kerry.

"I could say that you base your beliefs on what others (Bush, Rumsfield, Hanity, Russ, Fox News) think and want you to think."
******************************************
You COULD claim that but since you don't know how I arrived at my conclusions then you would be talking out your a**.
However the difference in the theme of your original post, you placed great emphasis on what other countries think and imply that Conservatives in the USA should re-evaluate their thinking based on what other countries think... Foreign policy decisions should be based on reasoning not international approval polls...

"You were in the majority (remember the 80%) following the crowd and not questioning anything from the leaders of this country, that's being a man?"
**************************************************
Huh?! 80%...Geez I guess your referring to another opionion poll. Like I said before...REAL MEN base their decisions on their core values....Not an opinion poll. Once again your making my points for me..
As for what I follow and what I question, you have never asked me so again your just talking out you a**.

"Time has proven us right, or at least almost 35% of the people that thought like you has changed their mind,"
************************************************** *
Geez.....you cite more opinion polls as proof.
We will not know the full impact of our current Iraq policy for years but we do KNOW:
1. Palestinian leadership in the first time in history is trying to stop violence as being part of their foreign policy.
2. Libya has given up their nuclear program.
3. Lebanese people have had TWO huge demostations against Syria and for self rule. What makes this even more remarkable is that Druse, Christians, and other factions have join together in a common cause. I NEVER thought I see this in my lifetime.
4. Successful election in Afganistan and the Taliban 'insurgency" has become rather pathetic.
5. Succesful 'purple finger' election in Iraq. Now Kurds and Shite have formed a tentative alliance in forming a new government and the next two years will be very revealing on the Iraq of the future.
Your doom-and-gloom attitude is typical on the current American Democrat Party.
If Lincoln conducted his presidency on an opinion poll there would still be slavery in the South.

"God forbid me to teach my 2 sons that courage is to follow your leaders positions without questioning of any kind."
*************************************************
No, your teaching your sons to read a poll before making a decision what to believe in.
You're also teaching them that FEELINGS = Reasoning.

The rest of your post is filled with so many faulty presuppositions it would take a lifetime to sort out. My impression is you have no idea what your core values are and your rather confused on what your beliefs are.

And please don't cite another opinion poll to make an argument.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Your using the "heads I win, tails you lose" argument.

If I understand you correctly,
The President of Poland would show "courage" by taking a poll and doing what the voters wanted.
But the president of Poland would be a 'coward" if he ignored the will of his voters and supported the US in Iraq.

QUESTION:
Is it possible in YOUR world that the President of Poland could support the US in Iraq and still show courage?

The president of Poland answers to the Polish people not to Bush. Chirac, Schoeder, and many other world leaders have vigorishly opposed Bush's policy in Iraq. If Poland followed suit it would be no big deal for the Polish president to do so. You have ZERO supporting evidence to support your assertion that the Polish president fears Bush. Again I think your talking our your a**.

What Schoeder fears is the 12.5% unemployment rate will cost him his job.
Chirac fears he will not get new bribe money to make up for the lost income in the oil-for-palaces and arms scam. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
another potential reason.... perhaps some of these Eastern European Nations are trying to earn some power of their own. Following around the passive EU members doesn't get them a lot of cred around the world( I realize the same can be said for following the U.S.) But a country like Poland is trying to emerge in the 21st century as a world power(or atleast its leaders are hoping they will).

[/ QUOTE ]

As Bush said in the debate, you forgot Poland!


Need some wood?

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
That is one reason why people respect Bush more than John "I voted for the $87b before I voted against it" Kerry.


[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this because of a ....... poll ?

Or just talking out of your ass?

[ QUOTE ]
Foreign policy decisions should be based on reasoning not international approval polls...


[/ QUOTE ]

The typical black or white conservative, foreign policy decisions are based in many things ......... including polls ........ Amazing hah ...


[ QUOTE ]
"You were in the majority (remember the 80%) following the crowd and not questioning anything from the leaders of this country, that's being a man?"
**************************************************
Huh?! 80%...Geez I guess your referring to another opionion poll. Like I said before...REAL MEN base their decisions on their core values....Not an opinion poll.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you were in the 80%, whats wrong with that? And who says people should based their decisions on a poll. You keep saying this because is so obviously easy to attack. If you keep saying this, then the discussion with you is worthless. Nothing I can say matters.


[ QUOTE ]
"Time has proven us right, or at least almost 35% of the people that thought like you has changed their mind,"
************************************************** *
Geez.....you cite more opinion polls as proof.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nop, I cite them as a fact.


[ QUOTE ]
We will not know the full impact of our current Iraq policy

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you here

[ QUOTE ]
"God forbid me to teach my 2 sons that courage is to follow your leaders positions without questioning of any kind."
*************************************************
No, your teaching your sons to read a poll before making a decision what to believe in.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Since I question the leaders then I make my decisions based in polls?

Frankly I can't follow your logic here. Looks more like a cheap shot.


[ QUOTE ]
My impression is you have no idea what your core values are and your rather confused on what your beliefs are

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you don't like people talking out of their ass because you have the monopoly on it.


[ QUOTE ]
And please don't cite another opinion poll to make an argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opinion polls are cited everywhere, (including Fox News, the congress and the White House), amazing heh. I guess that you have problems with polls, only when they don't agree with your beliefs, then you retort to the Real Men and core values decisions based argument.
By the way, when somebody needs to use phrases like "Real Men do like me, think like me"; my impression is that he's insecure and his argumentation very poor.

[Cyrus]

About a year ago, the republic of Macedonia announced it traced and tried to arrest seven "dangerous Islamic terrorists", who were subsequently killed in "a shoout-out" with Macedonian security forces.

Wow.

A triumph in the war against terror, right? A confirmation of the righteousness of George W Bush's efforts to bring together a wide coalition of the willing to combat terror, isn't it?

Nope.

Turns out the Macedonians killed seven completely innocent Pakistani immigrants (ie some poor souls who escaped Pakistan for a better life in the West), with the specific intent to present the affair to the Americans as Macedonia's contribution in the war against terror, and earn America's gratitude and pleasure! Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3674533.stm)

...These are some of the side-effects of the bullying done by the United States in press-ganging the world into America's fantastic war against terror. This is precisely what Sirio is talking about.

[Dead]

You forgot Poland.

What you fail to see, Cyrus, is that we have a rather pimp coalition of the willing. We have countries like Costa Rica and Denmark.

Did I mention Poland? Because Poland's important.