Fugly KK, PP NL 1k hand

[bogey]

This hand put me in a tough spot here, and was wondering what you guys thought. I was almost 100$ certain I had MP1 beat. Thanks for any replies!

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 ($2498)
MP1 ($338.5)
MP2 ($1218.5)
MP3 ($975)
CO ($2130.5)
Button ($1008.5)
Hero ($1251)
BB ($2764.01)
UTG ($1059.5)
UTG+1 ($1338)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls $10, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $45</font>, BB calls $40, MP1 calls $40.

Flop: ($150) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $375</font>, MP1 calls $288.50 (All-In),
I ?????????

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand put me in a tough spot here, and was wondering what you guys thought. I was almost 100$ certain I had MP1 beat. Thanks for any replies!

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 ($2498)
MP1 ($338.5)
MP2 ($1218.5)
MP3 ($975)
CO ($2130.5)
Button ($1008.5)
Hero ($1251)
BB ($2764.01)
UTG ($1059.5)
UTG+1 ($1338)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls $10, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $45</font>, BB calls $40, MP1 calls $40.

Flop: ($150) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $375</font>, MP1 calls $288.50 (All-In),
I ?????????

[/ QUOTE ]

does anyone play hands beside AA-KK?

just [censored] call.

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]

does anyone play hands beside AA-KK?


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no
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just [censored] call.

[/ QUOTE ]
then what?

[HoldEm_Hero]

This is a tough one. It's definatley either a fold or a push, calling is just plain silly. I would lay it down though because it smells like BB made a set and hes trying to force out the draws and thats exactly what MP1 has. Good luck though. I bet you called. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

does anyone play hands beside AA-KK?


[/ QUOTE ]
no
[ QUOTE ]

just [censored] call.

[/ QUOTE ]
then what?

[/ QUOTE ]

these situations are tight. there major factor is the history of your opponents, and their current speed/etc.

no one here can really give you much of an answer. unless i have a strong read that i am beat, i call in all of these situations - esp. when a short stack pushes, that seems to be dead money enough.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a tough one. It's definatley either a fold or a push, calling is just plain silly. I would lay it down though because it smells like BB made a set and hes trying to force out the draws and thats exactly what MP1 has. Good luck though. I bet you called. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain why this is a push or fold please.

[ggbman]

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[ QUOTE ]
This is a tough one. It's definatley either a fold or a push, calling is just plain silly. I would lay it down though because it smells like BB made a set and hes trying to force out the draws and thats exactly what MP1 has. Good luck though. I bet you called. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain why this is a push or fold please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if someone has J-10 and someone had A-J you dont want to get pushed off the turn when a diamond hits. If hero thinks his hand is good now, pushing is the best option.

[Lawrence Ng]

No read, stats, feels on BB or MP1?

Guys, when you post hands like this, reads are like umm...WEERRYY WEERRRY IMPWOORRTTANNTTT... so please post VPIP, PFR, WSD, AGR stuff like that.

Barring zero read, you have 2 choices. If you think he's got AJ, you push all-in. If you think he's got a set 77 or 55 which is more likely the case, you fold.

I'd coin flip for my decision here given the dead money and the way the hand is standing out.

Lawrence

[psuasskicker]

People say sets are one of the hardest hands to read in poker for a reason.

You didn't bother putting any info out on what your read was. Feel like taking a shot? Move in. Feel like letting it go? Fold it. Bottom line, you've gotta go with how you feel here. You think you're best, move in. If not, get off it.

How many times does just a pair of Kings win a three way pot?

I don't hate either move here, but these are decisions that get pushed either way based on your read. If you have no read what-so-ever cause it's the first ever hand you've played with these guys, flip a coin.

- C -

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]
No read, stats, feels on BB or MP1?

Guys, when you post hands like this, reads are like umm...WEERRYY WEERRRY IMPWOORRTTANNTTT... so please post VPIP, PFR, WSD, AGR stuff like that.

Barring zero read, you have 2 choices. If you think he's got AJ, you push all-in. If you think he's got a set 77 or 55 which is more likely the case, you fold.

I'd coin flip for my decision here given the dead money and the way the hand is standing out.

Lawrence

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt post reads because honestly I had none. I'm 4 tabling and basically treating everyone who doesn't stand out exceedingly in one way or the other as similar. I make notes on certain way over the top plays or if I know a solid regular but other than that hardly any. When I just say PP NL 1k I mean to treat the person as that type of regular guy who sits down (not necessarily a winner, but not a huge fish either)

How much do you guys really take in all those stats? I'm gonna try and start once my db for this game gets a little bigger, but honestly I dont see them being all that helpful. Maybe I'm giving up a lot in winrate and this is a big leak for me.

[theben]

i would be folding this one

[psuasskicker]

I'm 4 tabling and basically treating everyone who doesn't stand out exceedingly in one way or the other as similar. I make notes on certain way over the top plays or if I know a solid regular but other than that hardly any. When I just say PP NL 1k I mean to treat the person as that type of regular guy who sits down (not necessarily a winner, but not a huge fish either)

How much do you guys really take in all those stats?


You're kidding right? Four tables at PP NL $1K and you're not using any sort of stat tracker? You're either insane or you've got more money than you know what to rightly do with.

Get PokerTracker. Get GameTime+. Start using them. There's no way you should be four tabling without at least something like this, I don't care what your bankroll looks like. You're giving away money. And this hand is the PERFECT example. You've got a coin flip decision for a pot that could easily wind up being well over $2,500, and you haven't even bothered to ATTEMPT to get all the information you can possibly get on the players. There is no chance on this planet that playing at three other NL $1K tables at a time will ever make up the EV you lose in this exact situation because you don't know which direction to lean in this hand.

Seriously. Your incorrect play isn't in your call or your fold. It's in the fact that you don't care enough to have as much info as possible to tell you what decision is closer to correct for $2,500.

- C -

[Prevaricator]

running kings please

[Lawrence Ng]

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How much do you guys really take in all those stats?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot.

I 4 - 6 table the NL games and I find that it is more difficult to get reads, but the thing is with the stats, you have a fair idea of the style your opponent plays. You know whether they are a controlled LAG, or just a crazy LAG.

C/R %, WSD rates, VPIP, PFR, W$SD all give a great indication to the feel, play, and mood the player could be in.

Nothing beats reading hands though and that gets tough and PT really helps with that.

Lawrence

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]


You're kidding right? Four tables at PP NL $1K and you're not using any sort of stat tracker? You're either insane or you've got more money than you know what to rightly do with.


[/ QUOTE ]

No and no. I have Pokertracker, but I hardly ever use it. I was playing at UB for a while and getting the hand histories was too much a pain in the ass. All the shorthanded stats there mixed in would have f'ed everything up anyways.

Now that I've been playing these new Party tables i am gonna try to set up that playerview thing.

So the point is unless this guys stats are seriously skewed one way or the other its not gonna affect my decision. And if his stats are that skewed I probably would have noticed it without the stats.