Hand from last night's tournament

[Andy B]

This was hand 89 of the tournament. I know nothing about opponent except what I had observed during this tournament, and I missed the first dozen hands or so:

Tournament - 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit - Level IV (75/150), ante 15.

Stack Sizes:

Seat 1: (1741)
Hero: (1463)
Seat 4: (2726)
Seat 6: (1283)
Seat 8: (1787)

3rd Street

Seat 1: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif__calls
Hero: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif__brings-in low 25
Seat 4: xx xx T/images/graemlins/spade.gif__folds
Seat 6: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/club.gif__calls
Seat 8: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif__folds

4th Street

Seat 1: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif__checks__calls
Hero: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif__bets
Seat 6: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif__folds

5th Street

Seat 1: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif__checks__calls
Hero: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif__bets

6th Street

Seat 1: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif__checks
Hero: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif__checks

River

Seat 1: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif xx__checks__calls
Hero: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif__bets


greenage, this converter thing is sweet.

[greenage]

Thanks Andy,

My only question would be, did you consider completing on 3rd?

[Andy B]

Yes. Not really sure why I didn't, frankly.

[jon_1van]

while reading this forum I realized that I completely suck at high low

but....why bet on 4th?

[FeliciaLee]

I wasn't watching every, single hand, but the only overtly awful mistakes I saw you make all tourney were those hands where Greenage was the bring-in and sitting out, it was folded around to you in last position, and you folded to the bring-in.

I've done that, too, automatically choosing "fold" when the BI is sitting out, lol. Those of us who don't play online much sometimes make that horrible error.

Good job and congrats, it was great watching you and everyone else.

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif
www.felicialee.net (http://www.felicialee.net)

[TheShootah]

Was your bet on 4th because you thought everyone bricked, trying to win it right there?

[Andy B]

Yes. I was the bring-in, so I could have had almost anything.

[Hauser_III]

[ QUOTE ]
why bet on 4th?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the bring-in looking at two 3rd street limpers with 8's up, and he's trying to either isolate or take the whole thing down immediately. Odds are good that one or both limped with not very good low hands or with weak high hands. Leading out on 4th shows, or represents, strength from the bring-in, and anybody who limped with an 8 up and a bad low (okay, any 8 up is just about automatically a bad low, but I don't want to play semantics here) is going to get out after hitting a brick on 4th. So, he might pick up the entire pot on 4th, looking at two 8's up that may have just bricked their low draws. It's also a set-up for 5th, when he can catch lot of nice cards that either fit in with his coordinated actual low draw, or complement the J /images/graemlins/club.gif and look like he's been playing a strong high hand all along. If the remaining limper really started with 3 cards to a bad low, catches the brick on 4th and then catches another brick on 5, then virtually any card Andy hits on 5th and leads out with will probably convince the limper to fold.

That's my thought process, at least. Don't know if Andy analyzes it the same way.

Andy, would you try the same play looking at three limpers? I know I wouldn't even think about it unless the J was suited to two of my low cards.

[Andy B]

I was never aware that greenage was sitting out at any point, although clicking the fold button when you're to the right of the bring-in with an Ace is clearly wrong with this crew.

I'm reading through the hand histories right now, and there were a couple heads-up hands with greenage where I felt completely lost. I'll post them once I find them.

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
Andy, would you try the same play looking at three limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Important considerations:

1) Both of these guys are presumably trying to play well, and from what I have seen, are at least half-decent players.

2) Both of these guys only limped in. In this tournament, it was fairly rare that no one raised third street.

3) Both of these guys had fairly weak door cards.

4) Both of these guys probably know I'm a fair player and they can probably be counted on to give me a certain amount of respect.

With this in mind, I don't think it makes that much difference whether there are two such opponents or three. With four, it becomes somewhat likely that someone will find enough to call with, especially considering my weak board. I don't know whether I'd attempt this play with nothing, as opposed to next-to-nothing, though.

[SuitedBaby]

I don't know exactly what your question is about this hand but I'll put in my comments though I am no expert. The hand was played pretty passively except your 4th street bet. I think both of you and Seat 1 would have been playing correctly if you had used a more aggressive approach though as it turned out you probably won more the way it played out.

Seat 1 actually had:

As 5d 8h Qc 7h Th Qs

A playable 5-way hand with that board.

3rd street
I think you had to put Seat 1 on about what he had if you thought he was passive or perhaps something like 65 8 with maybe two hearts. He could also have 27 8 or some such since you are short-handed, the board is weak, and it is cheap. I think Seat 1 should have completed to see where you were at and maybe get heads-up. Also I probably would have completed on 3rd with your hand mostly because it is a tournament and you were leaning toward a short-stack with your 9 big bets and change.

4th street
Both of your probable weak low opponents brick on 4th and you bet. If Seat 1 had completed on 3rd he could bet here and you would be in a quandry. In fact he should probably bet here anyway but doesn't. I like your bet due to its deception but you had to expect at least one call with that deadish Jack and you knew you were likely behind.

5th street
After your 4th street bet Seat 1 checks his ace-high and weak low draw. You bet since you bet on 4th and in fact have greatly improved. Seat 1 likely is quite unsure of where he is at now and check-calls.

6th street
Seat 1 makes a three flush on board and you pair your pocket 4. Your board is scary now in spite of the Jack bet. I think you should have bet here when checked to in spite of the hearts but it goes check-check.

7th street
He checks his unfortunate queens, you naturally bet and he makes a crying call. According to twodimes.net the best hand won, :-).

Congrats on your finish. BTW where did you get the converter thing?

P.S. I think I'll pass on writing to Herb for now but thanks for the idea.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=830312
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 5h 4d 2d - as 5d 8h / ts 3s 8c
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
4d 2d 5h 162070 249132 250656 212 191967 18705 888 0.505
As 5d 8h 156699 250656 249132 212 155522 75222 888 0.495