Think this should have been an automatic push?

[KeysrSoze]

I'm pretty sure I screwed up here. I wish I saved hand history, but it went something like this.

3 left in SnG, blinds 400/800
Sb has about 5000 after posting blind
BB has 1800 after posting blind
Button (hero) has about 7000

I get dealt AK off, but instead of going all in I only bet 2600, enough to put the big blind short stack all in, trying to isolate him. Instead of folding though, the sb comes over the top all in, and seeing this the bb folds. I assume he has a pair, I gamble and call as I'd be pretty much guaranteed 1st if I hit. Sure enough he has 44 and I fail to connect, and I'm down to about 1000 after I post the next blind. (got lucky next hand and made 2nd anyway, thank god)

I'm assuming you all would have just pushed to try to get SB to drop a small hand? Would any of you even drop that pair against an all in, though?

[GtrHtr]

Yes he got lucky but I question the betting here. Why go all in pre-flop with AKo with 3 left? If your opening bet was smaller - pot sized or 3xBB you probably would have gotten a call before the flop from the 44. Were you isolating the small stack pre-flop or stealing?

[Insty]

[ QUOTE ]

instead of going all in I only bet 2600, enough to put the big blind short stack all in


[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't 1800 have been enough to do that?

If he's re-raising with pocket 4's I suspect he would have called your all-in bet anyway.
Either way you have to get all your chips in the middle holding AK when in the money.

[jeffraider]

I think you've got too many chips to push here. Raise it 3xBB, then you can fold when SB moves in, because he almost certainly has a hand here, is what I would think. The 3xBB raise is enough to force the shortstack to play for his stack too, if SB passes like he should. I liked the way you played it up until the call, I think. Even though he ended up having 44 here, I think I give him credit for a much bigger hand.

[ColdestCall]

Personally, I am going all in from the button here with a wide variety of hands, and I wouldn't play AK any differently. If the SB and BB's stacks were closer together, or approximately even, I'd move in with any two.

[KeysrSoze]

Big blind had 1800, plus 800 in blinds in the middle, so I had to go 2600 to put him all in. The small blind with 2nd biggest stack was playing rather tight, having won his chips with a couple big pots in the beginning and was coasting since then, so I doubted he would make a move here. I was trying to isolate the short stack, hoping he'd call thinking he was committed, but I wouldn't have minded a steal either as he had only 2 revolutions to go to get blinded out. Never figured I'd isolate the small blind instead of the big blind /images/graemlins/frown.gif. As you say, I feel as I was going to get all my money in no matter what that hand I should have done it at the start.

[KeysrSoze]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you've got too many chips to push here. Raise it 3xBB, then you can fold when SB moves in, because he almost certainly has a hand here, is what I would think. The 3xBB raise is enough to force the shortstack to play for his stack too, if SB passes like he should. I liked the way you played it up until the call, I think. Even though he ended up having 44 here, I think I give him credit for a much bigger hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 3xBB would have been 2400, but I went for 2600 to put the big blind all in in one sweep. Anyway, when he did go all in, I'm getting over 3 to 1 on the money, if I'm dominated by KK or AA then more power to him, thats just my bad luck. So would anyone else have folded here?

[GtrHtr]

Yeah, me. Why are you going all in pre-flop with the biggest stack? Think about the flop after you saw it. Would you have gone all in then?

[mscott2374]

I would personally have moved allin here. The reason for me doing this is that i don't want the SB to think that he can come back over the top of me to get me to fold, by going all in you take this move away from him. Once he goes allin i don't think there is any way you get away from this IMHO

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, me. Why are you going all in pre-flop with the biggest stack? Think about the flop after you saw it. Would you have gone all in then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your deepest stacked opponent only has 6-7xBB left, so any raise you make will force them to be pot committed if they want to play. Thats why your only bet here should be all-in. Since they are going to end up getting all of their chips in, you might as well maximize your bet to get the highest chance of them folding. It is one of the fundamentals of shortstacked tournament play. see: "10xBB rule"

[soda]

I'm all in with any decent holding here. There is tremendous pressure for the SB to fold in this situation and wait on the BB. You described the SB as tight, which means I would probably push with any 2. 1200 in blinds is huge if you can grab 2 or 3 hands in a row, you're golden.

Even though I'd push with any two, were I the small blind and you pushed here, I only see myself calling with AA, KK and maybe QQ. Everything else is hitting the muck in my current game. I think the gap theory in this particular situation becomes very important.

Every time I make the kind of raise you did in this situation (and I know I do this too), I chide myself because I believe the clearly superior play here is to just push. AK is not that strong preflop and you do not want to see a flop or have to call an over the top raise from SB.

These are just my opinions after about a week of one table SNGs.

soda

[curtains]

I would push here but your play isn't terrible. AK is a powerhouse and although it might entice the SB to move allin with pairs that you would like to fold, it might also entice him to move allin with hands like Aq/aj/at ETC.

Of course it shouldnt convince him of any of this since you are clearly pot committed, but a lot of people don't realize such fine details.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, me. Why are you going all in pre-flop with the biggest stack? Think about the flop after you saw it. Would you have gone all in then?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Your deepest stacked opponent only has 6-7xBB left, so any raise you make will force them to be pot committed if they want to play. Thats why your only bet here should be all-in. Since they are going to end up getting all of their chips in, you might as well maximize your bet to get the highest chance of them folding. It is one of the fundamentals of shortstacked tournament play. see: "10xBB rule"

[/ QUOTE ]



I see your point and stand corrected.