late multi - whats my action?

[Eccco]

Pls give me a pointer. I'm questioning my own flopbetting?

Setting: Stars 11$ rebuy - 1250 in, down to 300. Avg ~17k.
I have 15k, 2 off button when its folded to me and I find 66. Blinds 4/800 ante 50 or 100, and I raise till 2,4k. Fold to SB who has 16k and smoothcalls.

Flop T,5,3 rainbow. SB bets 2k into a 6k pot. Whats my move?
Fold, call or raise?
No reads - just been moved to the table so I'll accept fold as the easy way out. No bother - just move on to the next hand. Probably the safest way out...
Call - I don't much like it. But I guess some would play it out like that.
Raise. If u elect this approach - how much?

My thinking: Unless he has a T - a middle pair or hit three of a kind I'm ahead. Bigger pair most certainly would have reraised preflop ( although slowplayin' seems to be fashionably in vogue these days).

Ok - I'm going with this hand and I think I have the best hand - but his bet is scaring me. I raise 6,5k - another 4,5k on top of his 2 - leaving him with 11 k if he folds - and myself with about 5-6k if he reraises me all in. Then I can make a new decision based on his action.

Later I have been thinking ( second guessing??) that the right move ought to be all in and let him make the decision. Only raising him 4,5k gives him great odds (call 4,5 for a pot of 14-15k which would be like 1:3) Actually I think I made a slight math error in the heath of the battle. Pot now beeing 8,5k I figured a 6,5k raise would be enough to make him fold ( beeing more than 2/3 of the pot) but I completely forgot that he already had put down a bet of 2k which quite changes the picture ... :-) Oh well.

Anyway - he calls Leaving us both with about 6k. The turn is another lowcard ( maybe a 2 or 3). He goes all in - and I'm very unhappy and probably far behind. Pot is now 25k and I call off my last 5K.

What could he possibly have?
Answer in white:

<font color="white"> Of course he showing AJ makes the basis for a standard bad beat story when stars magic rivers an A - lol </font>

But actually I'm more interested in my own flopaction. Did I make a weak bet letting him in cheap? Should I have gone all in to eliminate his odds further or did I make a good bet leaving him with lousy odds, but myself with a chance to fold if he shows further strength by reraising me and going all in - which I would have to interpret as a stronger hand than mine. And then maybe I could make a laydown.

Apparently I could not lay the hand down for his turnbet. Pot being 25k and me with 5k. Since I took this approach later I might as well have put all the chippers in on the flop? Correct, or just being result oriented based on the outcome and his cards?

Ty for your response.

[Simplistic]

how you play it here is largely read dependent,

hands that are ahead are Tx and any pocket pair 6s and up. I don't think I put him on high pocket pair or else he's probably re-raising all-in on the flop.

I like the raise on the flop to get some information. pushing is iffy as you still have enough to play some poker.

i think you just took a tough beat.

[tiger7210]

In my opinion a lot depends on your read of the player. His 2000 bet on the flop looks like a probing bet trying to steal the pot as cheap as possible trying to get you to fold overcards on a missed flop.

Here's where you need a plan before you pull the trigger. Any reraise pot commits you. There is ~7500 in the pot and you now have less than 13000 so that pot is a 50% increase to your stack. I think its push or fold here on this flop. You have to figure he doesn't hold a big pair and and maybe he has AT/KT/99/88/77 or he already has a made hand with a set. More that likely a set would look to check raise you or wait till the turn to get all your chips since you already showed PF aggression. So the question is, can this player lay down what may be the winning hand for all his chips. If your read is that he can, then I push with what is really a semi bluff since you may actually have the best hand here. If he's a loose fish then I may just lay this down and move on since you still have 16BB's left.

[Rick Diesel]

If I was going to play after the flop, I would either push (probably 90% of the time in the given situation) or just call and then push on the turn if a nonscary (not A or K) card came. You really shouldn't worry though about how you played a hand when you get all the chips in and the opponent hits a 6 outer on the river.

[schwza]

i would call the flop and then plan on pushing/calling any non-A turn.

btw, there's no reason you should tell us what the river card happened to be. new posters usually post hands where they were ahead and got outdrawn - it gives the impression you're only posting it b/c you did get outdrawn.

[Eccco]

Ty - for your answers.

It seems we agree - a push on the flop is justified and would have been the better play.

[pollyson]

i definitley like to either raise or fold in this spot but u can make a case for any of the 3 options...heres the way i see it...

First ill make a case for a call...I think you can call here if you have a strong read on your opponent only...the bases for calling would have to be that A) you are almost positive you have the best hand B) you are sure your opponent is agressive and will bet the turn C) You are willing to go broke with 66 in this spot D) you are not going to change your mind about the hand unless an A hits the turn....after you have all of those htings you can be sure your read is solid that hes got high cards you can just call this bet....

I like the raise in this spot myself...and how much is dependant again on whether u want a call or not...personally i would not want a call in this spot so i would have either moved in or folded purely based on whether i thought i had the best of it or not....for me the most likely hands for him to have to have me beat are A,K or Q10 77 or 88, considering he is the sb he could have smooth called with any of these but i think he would have raised with any pair that had you beat with his stack and ur raise being in LP so if you are confident he does not have a 10 you should move in if you think hes holding a 10 you should fold

Folding, this play is basically as you said the easiest way out of what could be a marginal situation....he could have high cards but a 10 is also possible...he can have a5 or a3 also...remember you dont have a read on him yet so if you have no idea what you could be up against here a fold is not a horrible play...especially considering you have 13 or so k left in ur stack and blinds at 800...you have a bit of time to sit and wait for better than 66 to go broke with

[schwza]

i said:

[ QUOTE ]
i would call the flop and then plan on pushing/calling any non-A turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

you said:

[ QUOTE ]
Ty - for your answers.

It seems we agree - a push on the flop is justified and would have been the better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[kuro]

How do you make a decision between pushing or calling non ace turns? Lately I've been leaning towards calling/checking down the turn hoping to induce a bluff and then calling/value betting the river. Also if the turn is an ace and it's checked to you do you bet out?

I'm so bad at these way ahead / way behind hands.

[schwza]

after calling the flop the pot will be 10k and hero has 10k behind. on a non-A turn, i'm pushing, whether it's a raise or a bet. i just meant that i'd call a push if villain pushed.

if checked to an A turn, i'd check behind and pray for a free showdown. i'll call a 5k bet on the end, but not a push.

[Eccco]

Yes - sorry bout that - kind of summed up all of the answers in one - although yours had a slight different approach.

Not really familiar with the structure of the bord yet!!

Anyway - another thing that i'm not familiar with is the thought of - pushing any non A flop (or turn) as a standard in these situations.

An interesting strategy - although very situational of course - do u have success with this strategy? Or rather - what are your criteria for making this move?