T8s in the BB

[Chris Daddy Cool]

2/4 party poker

unknowns all the way around.

utg raises. CC1, CC2, CC3. SB calls. I'm in the BB with T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and call. 6 to the flop for 12 small bets.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks. I bet. UTG raises. CC1 calls. CC2 3-bets. CC3 folds. SB folds. I call. UTG caps. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. 4 to the turn for 14 big bets.

Plan for the turn if a blank falls.
see what UTG and CC2 do. UTG has big pair. CC2 could have strong draw or a set or flopped straight. If UTG bets and CC2 just calls, I will checkraise. If UTG bets and CC2 raises I will fold.

Plan for a scary turn.
check and call a bet and fill up.

With me?

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I check. UTG bets. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. I checkraise. UTG calls. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. 4 to the river for 22 big bets.

River plan: bet out the blanks and fold to a raise.
If a 7 falls, check and see though pretty sure will fold.
If a club falls, check and see and probably call one bet.
If 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif falls, openfold.
If a 9 or 2 falls, checkfold.

River: 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Ok, thats a blank. I bet. UTG calls. CC1 raises. CC2 folds. I fold.

Thoughts?

[DMBFan23]

I'm not good enough to fold the river.

I like the hand up until that point. I think a stop and go to have villain raise out some more customers would have been cool on the turn IF you knew it would work, but there's no guarantee he'll raise the turn, and you have muchos equity at this point. cool checkraise.

[spydog]

Dude, are you really playing 2/4?

Call the river. Do you want the guy to flash AT and put you on tilt for a week?


ADVICE: Don't be making heroic folds at 2/4.

[rmarotti]

[ QUOTE ]

If 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif falls, openfold.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet.

You don't think CC1 waking up on the river could be an even worse raggedy two pair? The pot is so huge I cant see why you fold here barring some incredible reads which you haven't given us. I'm curious to hear your justification for this line.

If I had to guess I'd say that CC1 called multiple bets multiple times so he either flopped a monster or a monster draw. When he has you and UTG already in for a bet on the river and raises it seems like he in fact flopped a monster, let y'all bet it for him, but realizes he can probably get more out of you two than letting CC2 overcall.
Am I close? And if I am then I might be willing to admit this is a good fold.

[Nick C]

That certainly was one lengthy slowplay by CC1, if that's what he was doing throughout the hand.

Like DMBFan23, I'm not good enough to make the river fold. But CC1 does appear to like his hand, if he's willing to raise with three players still in even after you checkraised the turn.

[Fat Nicky]

well, CC1 called down all the way, really didn't show any aggression the entire hand until the river where a blank fell...i'm inclined to call this strange river raise, especially since it's unlikely there will be no more raises behind me.

[chief444]

I'd certainly expect a slowplayed straight. But it wouldn't shock me if an unknown 2/4 player turned over T3 or something.

[rmarotti]

CC1 didn't need to show any agression till the river (I think.)

Do you see why?
(serious question)

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
CC1 didn't need to show any agression till the river (I think.)

Do you see why?
(serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

my guess would be a slowplayed straight, or maybe even a set where he waited for safe cards to fall to raise...

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
But it wouldn't shock me if an unknown 2/4 player turned over T3 or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen this with enough frequency at this level to make this a call almost always. Someone misses their draw and decides to make a desperate shot at this huge pot. No way I'm folding.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
CC1 didn't need to show any agression till the river (I think.)

Do you see why?
(serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there were three other significant aggressors betting his hand for him?

I couldn't fold this river either.

[DMBFan23]

using my twisted bad old school passive player logic, he could play something like JdQd this way, and was waiting for the board not to pair or no flush card to come.

I'm excited about this hand because unlike most of CDC's laydown hands, we might get to see what villain has, unless UTG makes the money laydown too.

[chief444]

I'm just excited to see what Super Pro would do.

[btspider]

if the turn board were less coordinated (say T864), would you bet the turn hoping UTG's overpair raises. it would clean up some of his counterfeiting outs and protect him a bit from gutshots, so i'd expect him to make it enough.

i call the river b/c i think he'll turn up something stupid like T3s often enough.

[QTip]

LOL! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just excited to see what Super Pro would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I had someone to sweat me. I want a super pro! I want one!

[djoyce003]

The pot is huge at this point. No way am I folding this for one more bet on the river. You have to be good something insanely small like 5% of the time to make this call profitable. How often do you think he shows 98, or T3 or some other random hand here, other than the flopped straight. No way am I folding this. I think this might be the most horrible fold i've ever seen....regardless of what the results of the hand were (if he showed a straight or something).

[deucesevenoff]

Maybe I'm completely off base, but couldn't one make the case for checking the flop? My rationale: by betting the flop with 12 small bets, any drawers out there (and on a flop like this with six players its almost a given that somebody will have found something they like) will be getting 13:1 so they have the odds to draw to straights, flushes, or even gutshots. Maybe this is weak tight, but I think that this is a case when betting will not protect your hand.

If you had checked the flop, it would have probably been two bet anyway and you would have definitely called.

I love that check raise on the turn when a blank falls. Its still a dangerous board, but you have a playable hand. But once you check-raise the turn, I think you are tying yourself to the pot. If an action card falls on the river then I could see the case for folding, but with a brick like the three of spades, if you had the best hand on the turn you probably still have the best hand on the river. I think on the river a check/call would have been in order.

Thoughts?

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you stole my name.

[DMBFan23]

I think there are lots of hands that will call this river but will not value bet it, I think a river bet is pretty automatic. especially when I was just called on the turn and no new draws came in.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm completely off base, but couldn't one make the case for checking the flop? My rationale: by betting the flop with 12 small bets, any drawers out there (and on a flop like this with six players its almost a given that somebody will have found something they like) will be getting 13:1 so they have the odds to draw to straights, flushes, or even gutshots. Maybe this is weak tight, but I think that this is a case when betting will not protect your hand.

If you had checked the flop, it would have probably been two bet anyway and you would have definitely called.

[/ QUOTE ]

We bet out the flop, hoping to get raised, in order to force gut-shots to call improperly, getting only 7.5:1.

[cnfuzzd]

These donks arent your usual 15/30 donks. Im calling this river against a 2/4 unknown 100% of the time. If he wins, oh well. Pretend to go on tilt and start calling his dog a pig fucker.

peace

john nickle

[meep_42]

Yay! The Avatar is back!

-d

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
2/4 party poker

unknowns all the way around.

utg raises. CC1, CC2, CC3. SB calls. I'm in the BB with T 8 and call. 6 to the flop for 12 small bets.

Flop: T 9 8

SB checks. I bet. UTG raises. CC1 calls. CC2 3-bets. CC3 folds. SB folds. I call. UTG caps. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. 4 to the turn for 14 big bets.

Plan for the turn if a blank falls.
see what UTG and CC2 do. UTG has big pair. CC2 could have strong draw or a set or flopped straight. If UTG bets and CC2 just calls, I will checkraise. If UTG bets and CC2 raises I will fold.

Plan for a scary turn.
check and call a bet and fill up.

With me?



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I'm not sure I like the fold if it goes bet, raise, CC. You'll likely be getting 20/2, which IMO is ebough to peel off a T on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
River plan: bet out the blanks and fold to a raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hate this. What if it is HU?


[ QUOTE ]
If 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif falls, openfold.


[/ QUOTE ]


This made me laugh out loud. (I am lonely.)

[ QUOTE ]
If a club falls, check and see and probably call one bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

That would suck, but I tend to agree.

[ QUOTE ]
If a 9 or 2 falls, checkfold.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK.


[ QUOTE ]
River: 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Ok, thats a blank. I bet. UTG calls. CC1 raises. CC2 folds. I fold.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this fold is abysmal. There is too much money in there. You have UTG's AA beat. CC2 probably has 999 or the nuts, but 4% of the time he will have T8s, 98s, ATc, or some other crap that you beat. I honestly cannot believe you let this go.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
2/4 party poker

unknowns all the way around.

utg raises. CC1, CC2, CC3. SB calls. I'm in the BB with T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and call. 6 to the flop for 12 small bets.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks. I bet. UTG raises. CC1 calls. CC2 3-bets. CC3 folds. SB folds. I call. UTG caps. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. 4 to the turn for 14 big bets.

Plan for the turn if a blank falls.
see what UTG and CC2 do. UTG has big pair. CC2 could have strong draw or a set or flopped straight. If UTG bets and CC2 just calls, I will checkraise. If UTG bets and CC2 raises I will fold.

Plan for a scary turn.
check and call a bet and fill up.

With me?

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I check. UTG bets. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. I checkraise. UTG calls. CC1 calls. CC2 calls. 4 to the river for 22 big bets.

River plan: bet out the blanks and fold to a raise.
If a 7 falls, check and see though pretty sure will fold.
If a club falls, check and see and probably call one bet.
If 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif falls, openfold.
If a 9 or 2 falls, checkfold.

River: 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Ok, thats a blank. I bet. UTG calls. CC1 raises. CC2 folds. I fold.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm giving CC1 222 or 333. That would be sweet.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i fold. utg calls and shows AA.

cc1 shows 33 for the rivered set.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
i fold. utg calls and shows AA.

cc1 shows 33 for the rivered set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris,

What are you doing at 2/4?

[Super Pro]

terrible fold. i don't care what the results were. and you wonder why you're losing so much.

[admiralfluff]

At 2/4 you have to know this fold is bad. Go back to 15/30 and leave the little fish for us.

[mr pink]

http://www.astro.washington.edu/reed/info/donkey.jpg

[gaming_mouse]

Donkey?

Man, that guy is not only a Pro, he's a "super pro." Do you have any idea how good that is? I mean, it's like a pro, but just SO MUCH better.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
terrible fold. i don't care what the results were. and you wonder why you're losing so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you wake up and think: How can I best be a douche today?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Donkey?

Man, that guy is not only a Pro, he's a "super pro." Do you have any idea how good that is? I mean, it's like a pro, but just SO MUCH better.

[/ QUOTE ]

On this topic... Super Pro: did you give yourself that name or did someone else? Also, do you have a big 'S' on all of your clothing?

[mr pink]

he's still a donkey.

[dangerous_badman]

[ QUOTE ]
Chris,

What are you doing at 2/4?

[/ QUOTE ]

*fidgets nervously at the prospect of running into CDC at a small stakes table*

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chris,

What are you doing at 2/4?

[/ QUOTE ]

*fidgets nervously at the prospect of running into CDC at a small stakes table*

[/ QUOTE ]

dude, i don't slum it down there. i play 3/6 exclusivley. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PokerBob]

vnh

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
i fold. utg calls and shows AA.

cc1 shows 33 for the rivered set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I win (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1940954&page=0&view=e xpanded&sb=5&o=14&vc=1)

[pokerjunky]

This is why I love Party - full of eggheads like cc1 calling this board down with a pair of 33. What a dufus.

[Ice]

Superpro

Whats your deal? You rip Chris daddy at every chance and the guy has a lot of interesting hands to post. From some of the stuff i've seen you post it appears you have some very interesting advice to add to the forum,too.

Whether you like him or not can't we stick to the strategy and concepts so we all become better players rather than the personal insults. Thanks. Ice

[Hoi Polloi]

The fold is bad. But the bet is worse. I would just plan to call any bet on the end here. At 2/4 it could be anything; like the rivered set vs. AA. Making a bet that you're going to fold to a bet just doesn't make sense in this pot; IMHO.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just excited to see what Super Pro would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
terrible fold. i don't care what the results were. and you wonder why you're losing so much.


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~tedor/survey_stfu.jpg