KK in MP was I too aggresive? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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JoeC1948

03-16-2005, 12:10 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB is LAP

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

I figure I have a 69% chance of best hand at the river. I have 7 outs

Turn: (12 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Chances are still 60% I will have best hand but I'm worried

River: (20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

I know I'm beat (only 11% chance now) but with good pot odds, I cant drop.

Was I too aggresive? Would any drop on the river (or even the turn)?

Final Pot: 24 BB

joeski19

03-16-2005, 12:13 PM

No, I don't think so. PF. Flop, and turn look fine.
I would have check called the river.

jrz1972

03-16-2005, 12:14 PM

Folding either the turn or river would be beyond horrible. You're dragging this way more than 5% of the time.

Also, I play this the same on all streets. I'm fine with the river bet. There are a lot of two pair hands that will call you, and the only (realistic) hand you're losing to is the rivered gutshot. I'll just have to pay that off if somebody chased me down on this one.

BaronVonCP

03-16-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding either the turn or river would be beyond horrible. You're dragging this way more than 5% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How Much more?

crownjules

03-16-2005, 12:19 PM

Looks like Button cold-called 3 times with his J and luckily got his rivered broadway.

You have the best hand on the flop, so the cap is easy. On the turn, I'm not giving anyone credit for QJ (and no one plays like they do). Unfortunately, the river is 4 to a broadway and like I said, it looks like Button called all the way with a J. I probably check/call the river.

KaiShin

03-16-2005, 12:22 PM

You played it fine, but with this many players on the river I'd check-call.

jrz1972

03-16-2005, 12:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Folding either the turn or river would be beyond horrible. You're dragging this way more than 5% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How Much more?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only hands he's losing to are AA (which seems very unlikely) and Jx.

Button will sometimes be overplaying two pair (KQ) or will be bluffing at the scary board. Some would even play this way with 33, although admittedly that would be pretty ugly.

I'm guessing Hero wins this 20% of the time or so, but that could be on the high side. Still, this is an easy call.

JKetzer

03-16-2005, 12:36 PM

Agreed, I see a lot of people taking pot-shots at 4-flush and 4-straight boards. That said, I think the bet's a little bit frisky. Easy check-call.

Isura

03-16-2005, 01:43 PM

I think you played it well. But I'm not sure about the river, I might have check/called but I think it's really close. If the river is a 3rd flush card I check/call, but here the value bet seems okay.

DMBFan23

03-16-2005, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB is LAP

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

I figure I have a 69% chance of best hand at the river. I have 7 outs

Turn: (12 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Chances are still 60% I will have best hand but I'm worried

River: (20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

I know I'm beat (only 11% chance now) but with good pot odds, I cant drop.

Was I too aggresive? Would any drop on the river (or even the turn)?

Final Pot: 24 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

this is perfect.

Aaron W.

03-16-2005, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I figure I have a 69% chance of best hand at the river. I have 7 outs

...

Chances are still 60% I will have best hand but I'm worried

...

I know I'm beat (only 11% chance now) but with good pot odds, I cant drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the heck are these numbers coming from?

JoeC1948

03-16-2005, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I figure I have a 69% chance of best hand at the river. I have 7 outs

...

Chances are still 60% I will have best hand but I'm worried

...

I know I'm beat (only 11% chance now) but with good pot odds, I cant drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the heck are these numbers coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am running a prgram called Texas Calculatem in the background. You can try it for free on their website

JoeC1948

03-16-2005, 04:07 PM

The BB had Jh 9H /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Greg J

03-16-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The BB had Jh 9H /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
You still played it well.

Shillx

03-16-2005, 09:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I figure I have a 69% chance of best hand at the river. I have 7 outs

...

Chances are still 60% I will have best hand but I'm worried

...

I know I'm beat (only 11% chance now) but with good pot odds, I cant drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the heck are these numbers coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am running a prgram called Texas Calculatem in the background. You can try it for free on their website

[/ QUOTE ]

I have always wondered about this program. I looked at the Party TOC and I didn't see anything about it. So may I ask...

1) Is it legal? I have my doubts.

2) Does it put the opponent on a range of hands (based on what PT tells it) and then tell you what your pot equity is at that point?

If (2) is what it actually does, it would be impossible to beat anyone who uses it provided that they have enough data on you. It basically analyzes opponents hands based on game theory ideas. This person would never lose at the game.

Brad

SCfuji

03-16-2005, 10:01 PM

heads up i value bet the river. with the sb and button lingering i dont. all they need is a J among the six cards they have.

bottomset

03-16-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I figure I have a 69% chance of best hand at the river. I have 7 outs

...

Chances are still 60% I will have best hand but I'm worried

...

I know I'm beat (only 11% chance now) but with good pot odds, I cant drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the heck are these numbers coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am running a prgram called Texas Calculatem in the background. You can try it for free on their website

[/ QUOTE ]

I have always wondered about this program. I looked at the Party TOC and I didn't see anything about it. So may I ask...

1) Is it legal? I have my doubts.

2) Does it put the opponent on a range of hands (based on what PT tells it) and then tell you what your pot equity is at that point?

If (2) is what it actually does, it would be impossible to beat anyone who uses it provided that they have enough data on you. It basically analyzes opponents hands based on game theory ideas. This person would never lose at the game.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm intrigued right now, but suspect it either doesn't provide much/accurate info, or is illegal

JoeC1948

03-17-2005, 03:45 PM

It would be no more illegal than havin a sheet of paper next to your pc telling you the odds of hitting an inside straight. It does give more info and tells you your chance of having the best hand. It cannot tell how much $ is in the pot so it doesn't spit out pot odds but they are easier to calculate if you know your chance of having the best hand. It does tell you the percentage of your opponent having pair, 2 pait, etc. but believe me you can still loose money when using it. It is simply a calculater.