Dead Aces

I was playing at a table of maniacs, and I think I played this hand poorly.
Starting hands

(**)Ah
(**)2c
(**)Ad
(**)2h
(**)5d
(Ac9c)As

2c brings in, Ad calls, 5d calls, I complete, Ah raises, 2c calls, Ad calls, 5d calls, I reraise, Ah caps, all call.

4th street

(**)Ah6d
(**)2c6s
(**)Ad9h
(**)5d7h
(Ac9c)As8c

A9 checks, 57 checks, I bet, A6 raises, 26 reraises, A9 folds, 57 calls, I call, A6 calls.

5th street

(**)Ah6dQs
(**)2c6h4h
(**)5d7h8h
(Ac9c)As8c6c
AQ bets, 642 raises, 875 calls, I call, and AQ calls.

6th street.

(**)Ah6dQsQd
(**)2c6h4h9s
(**)5d7h8hQc
(Ac9c)As8c6c8h

QQ checks, 246 bets Q875 calls, I call, QQ raises, 2469 reraises 578Q folds, and I call figuring that either the case 8 or one of the 7 remaining clubs would make my hand good, and at this point the pot is so huge that it's almost impossible to let go of a hand.

I river a Jd QQ checks 246 bets, and I make a crying call, followed by QQ calling. My real questions are (1) was I too aggressive in the beginning with my aces dead, should I have let this go on 6th street when the check raise and re-raise really suggested that they had strong hands, and would anyone dump on the river when the pot was offering 35 to one odds.

[Ray Zee]

i will try again as i posted and it dissapeared. but i would have just called the bring in and folded for a raise here.

[Michael Davis]

Nukid,

On 3rd street, in a game against a bunch of maniacs who will call all of these raises, you should dump any dead pair on 3rd street, even aces. You should probably dump them if one ace is out, too. The mean winning in this type of game is very high, and this type of hand is not made by dead pairs. The two flush admittedly adds value to your hand, but not enough, IMO.

You should look to play this hand on 3rd if you can severely limit the field. If you can't, and you are still resistant to the idea of folding aces, you should merely limp, keep the pot small, and try to blow people out of the water on 5th (assuming this is fixed limit) if their boards develop favorably to your hand.

4th street is the toughest part of your hand. You know have a three flush with only one other club out. Unless the bring-in is a total maniac, though, you are up against a roll of deuces. The only other thing he could have is KK, failing to believe your ramming and jamming with dead aces. If your aces are live here, I think you have to call for pot size, and I'm honestly unsure if calling is wrong here with your three flush, but if this happened in my game, I would dump my hand.

On 5th street, the hand develops as best as possible for you, as you are the lone player to catch a club. You are tied on for sure.

On the river, I would muck even at 35-1. Perhaps you are going to tell me you won the hand, but I don't think you're safe here. By 6th street, it has become apparent that 2649 has the remaining two deuces in the hole. He can't possibly believe that he is taking this pot down with a bet. It would be a great bet, I suppose, if he had two small pair, but there's no way to put him on anything but trips, with an outside chance of him having 53 clubs in the hole. Either way he wins. If he can beat Qs up, he can beat As up.

If the game is so maniacal that the bring in could have anything here, I don't know what to tell you, except that you would have a tough decision on every street if your aces were live, but dead aces should be mucked. The value of posts involving complete maniacs is somewhat mitigated by the inability to improve hand reading techniques, which is the best result of this forum.

Take care.

Mike

[J_V]

Mr. Zee,

You would just call with Aces and then fold for the bring in? I don't understand, against those boards. You nine kick is live. So, you can't make three of kind? How can you lay down on third?

The bring in flipped over 3s,3d,5h down for the straight. I don't know if he caught it on the river, but I assume not, although I wouldn't be shocked as he had bluffed like that all night. The QQ on the board had queens up, he started with pocket 4s.