huh?

[tolbiny]

PP 5-10 SH, full table.

First hand at the table- Player view hasn't even kicked up yet.

I get A5o in the BB.

3 limpers and the sb.
Flop comes A Q 9 with two hearts

sb checks, i check and it gets checked around.

Turn 5 non heart.

Sb bets, i call

[Kaz The Original]

I think this is a way ahead or way ahead situation.

[tolbiny]

i agree
so what do you think of the turn call?

[TStoneMBD]

definite raise

[tolbiny]

i have 2 questions...

how often do you check this flop-
and on the turn what do you want your raise to accomlish?

[theRealMacoy]

you gotta raise.

regarding the "huh", maybe you got nailed by pocket fives?
with everyone limping in then checking the flop i just don't put an opponent on AA, AQ, QQ, or 99. Seems more likely oppents on a flush draw and/or KQ.

but hey, i am no poo-bah (what is this a convention?)

the real macoy

[TStoneMBD]

its a draw heavy board. you cant let someone chase to their draw cheaply. you are ahead here almost always. so you raise for value and for protection.

how often do i check this flop here? there is no mathematical figure for me, but i do check my pair of aces in aggressive games fairly often. however, on a draw heavy board like this, its very dangerous to give out a free card, so i will usually bet unless im 90% sure this flop will be bet by a worse hand.

[tolbiny]

after i check the flop and the sb bets the turn the pot is 3.5 bb's- my thinking is that squeezing out a bet or two from a gutshot who won't call 2 cold outweighs the times he hits and wins.
An added benefit is that a player behind me will get frisky with a Q or a weak A (which happens a bizarre amount of the time) and i can call/three bet him.

[Nikla]

You need to raise mainly to protect your hand. If this hand had been 3-way, I really like just calling. When the non-blind player doesn't find a bet on this flop, you can pretty much count him out. If you raise turn, any halfdecent SB will realize his queen or nine is no good and fold. By just calling you will often win an extra bet on the river when he check calls his pair. If he has an ace, he will usually bet river anyway and you can pop him there instead.

[Victor]

easy obvious raise. you are very very likely ahead and its good to fold gutshots here. also, raising heavily reduces the odds for a flush draw.

[tolbiny]

"and its good to fold gutshots here"

Incorrect!
a gut shot is getting 5.5-1 to call this bet- therefore he is losing money on his call- and since you are confident that you have the best hand currently that means that you should be making money on his call.

[JohnnyHumongous]

I guess I'm the only one who loves the flop and turn action on an unknown (therefore assume 'typical') 5-10 shorthanded table.

People often check it by with a Q or a 9 on this flop but are willing to call the turn to pick off what they perceive as underpairs... Also (and I haven't played 5-10 6-max in a long while so correct me if I'm wrong) but most people would bet an open-ended or flush draw on the flop if it's checked to them. IF for some reason one of the other 3 players does have exactly JT or two hearts then not charging them to draw is wellll worth the overcalls you are going to get.

Or you can raise and have the limpers fold their Q, 9, gutties and the SB can toss his paired 5 too /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Grisgra]

I bet the flop, hope to get a caller or two, then check the turn and hope for a checkraise from some guy with a draw looking to take it down right there. If I pick it up on the flop, that's fine with me too.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
"and its good to fold gutshots here"

Incorrect!
a gut shot is getting 5.5-1 to call this bet- therefore he is losing money on his call- and since you are confident that you have the best hand currently that means that you should be making money on his call.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually gutshots are only getting 4.5:1, but you are right about making money by keeping the gutshots in for one bet. however, in practice, this cannot be relied upon. by just calling many bad things can happen. by bad things, i mean you lose money in many different ways.

1. you lose money because the sb (raiser) is calling you down with any pair of aces. also, sb could have any 2 pair like q5 or 95. they might even reraise you.

2. you lose money because any flush draw is calling 2cold here. (this is mitigated by the likelihood that a flush draw would have bet the flop)

3. a gutshot or pair+gutshot might actually call 2cold here so by raising you give your opps the opportunity to make a large mistake.

4. a gutshot draw might be folding here even if you do call so you are not maxing out when you are ahead against other aces. some people play correctly.

if you work it out on paper you only make about .5BB if the gutshot calls here. by forcing worse hands (weaker aces or 2pair and flush draws) to call another bet you make more than this. calling is +ev while raising is ++ev.