Flopped set, and sandwiched

[SuitedSixes]

The fact that there was a short stack still to act factored into my decision making.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t2233)
MP3 (t499)
CO (t760)
Button (t608)
SB (t160)
BB (t510)
UTG (t1565)
Hero (t805)
MP1 (t860)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
BB calls t30, UTG calls t30, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB checks.

Flop: (t150) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t120</font>, Hero . . .

[bigredlemon]

Min raises.
You don't want the flush draws to call. You want top pair to call. the blinds are more likely to have a draw that could bust you than a made hand that's drawing dead. If you flat call, you're giving a flush or straight draw good odds to call given the multiway action.

With a minraise, you're not revealing your truth strength. You could have top pair with a middle kicker raising for info or you could be using your position to buy a free flush card.

In any case, you probably won't get more money out of the blinds except in situations where you want them to fold. You're target here is UTG. If he was semibluffing a flush draw or straight draw, you've forced him to pay more for his draw. If he has AQ or two pair, he'll probably reraise and you'll likely take his whole stack. If he has Q2 and folds, then that's just tough luck. You might have gotten more money out of him, but you also might have lost your stack. There's too many scare cards out there for you to flat call here, and you're getting too little value for that risk.

[Ryan527h]

[ QUOTE ]
Min raises.
You don't want the flush draws to call. You want top pair to call. the blinds are more likely to have a draw that could bust you than a made hand that's drawing dead. If you flat call, you're giving a flush or straight draw good odds to call given the multiway action.

With a minraise, you're not revealing your truth strength. You could have top pair with a middle kicker raising for info or you could be using your position to buy a free flush card.

In any case, you probably won't get more money out of the blinds except in situations where you want them to fold. You're target here is UTG. If he was semibluffing a flush draw or straight draw, you've forced him to pay more for his draw. If he has AQ or two pair, he'll probably reraise and you'll likely take his whole stack. If he has Q2 and folds, then that's just tough luck. You might have gotten more money out of him, but you also might have lost your stack. There's too many scare cards out there for you to flat call here, and you're getting too little value for that risk.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think min raising isn't really enough to make the guy fold, I'd play it safe and bet the pot.

[BillyKGB]

[ QUOTE ]

I think min raising isn't really enough to make the guy fold, I'd play it safe and bet the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
He wants the "guy" to call, the one with the prob toppair..
He wants the flush draws to fold..

[Ryan527h]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think min raising isn't really enough to make the guy fold, I'd play it safe and bet the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
He wants the "guy" to call, the one with the prob toppair..
He wants the flush draws to fold..

[/ QUOTE ]Wow I'm going blank right now but I coulda swore a min raise didn't have to be double the bet, if it doesnt have to be double the bet than that is giving the flush odds to call.

[SuitedSixes]

The converter has been screwy, but I only remember there being three of us left. I wanted to get all of my chips in on the flop, but I didn't want to close out the small stack yet to act, because I felt he would go all-in with any part of the flop. Does this change any opinions?

[Scuba Chuck]

What is the probability that either two victims/villains have a flush draw? 1:15 (I don't know, I'm making that up).

I think we're choosing betweeen two general choices here.

A Smooth Call, and putting all/most of our chips in on the turn

B Reraise to 300 - hoping to get one chaser

I'd be more interested in what people choose here, A or B?

[Apathy]

Raising here seems silly to me. If the utg guy is betting the flush draw, and he bets the turn when he hits he can have my chips. If the short stack flopped a flush draw hes clearly not going anywhere anyways. Smooth call the flop and push the turn when the guy with the queen come out firing. (If the BB gets involved on the flop my answer changes a little).

[poboys]

Assuming that the SB (the short stack) is in this pot, and the BB is not, then this is an easy smooth call.

UTG is screaming top pair with his pot-sized bet. Sure he could be on the flush draw, but more likely than not, he's defending against a flush draw.

SB is on life support, so you are hoping that he realizes he's getting 2:1 on his money and pushes or calls if he caught a piece of it (or has a good draw).

The turn is the perfect opportunity to create a side pot between you and UTG.

[SuitedSixes]

I chose A (smooth call) because I wanted the small stack to go all-in behind. That would allow me to close the betting with an all-in. What do you think of this play?

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I chose A (smooth call) because I wanted the small stack to go all-in behind. That would allow me to close the betting with an all-in. What do you think of this play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure? I don't think you get the option of reraising as the SB "raise" is not legal and ruled a call (or is that only preflop?

In any event I don't like that, it is a big overbet and your letting utg off easy unless he happens to have the draw.

[nokona13]

So I must be weak-aggressive or something. Maybe it's becaue of the levels I play (22s and 33s), but I feel like I see SO many people semi-bluff here with the flush draw. The small stacks only got 145 chips left if I see it right. If he's got the flush draw, he's obviously not going anywhere regardless. But if the other guy's got it, I want him to PAY to see another card. I feel like the 120 bet already signals someone's got at least TP or a high flush draw, so even with a smooth call, the SB isn't going to call with MP or something. I'm raising to 300-350 I think. Do I seem monsters under the bed with the flush draw on the board? I hate losing trips to flushes...

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising to 300-350 I think. Do I seem monsters under the bed with the flush draw on the board? I hate losing trips to flushes...

[/ QUOTE ]

read my mind.

[sofere]

Flop: (t150) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t120</font>, Hero . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Follow up Difficulty situation:
Hero Calls [Raises to 240], SB Calls, BB Folds[, UTG Calls 120]
Turn 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG pushes, hero???

[microbet]

If you call and a heart comes, you may not lose, but it may shut down the queen.

If there is a flush draw you might get money from them here, but not if the next card isn't a heart.

On the other hand, if the next card isn't a heart the queen will pay.

I lean towards either letting them make a mistake by calling my raise or just taking the pot down there, but I'm not sure.

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
I chose A (smooth call) because I wanted the small stack to go all-in behind. That would allow me to close the betting with an all-in. What do you think of this play?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, thats my exact line here. Get as many chips as possible in right now on the flop, and this is the best way to do it.

[EarlCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure? I don't think you get the option of reraising as the SB "raise" is not legal and ruled a call (or is that only preflop?)

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[sofere]

If SB reraised all-in, it would not be a "legal" raise as it would not be an amount greater than or equal to the previous raise. Therfore it is treated as a call and can not be reraised.

The reason for this is it you could then deliberately raise to $1 less than the small stacks stack size...then if he reraises that $1 to be all-in, the original raiser could then stick it to anyone who called in front of the short stack by reraising them.

I don't know if that made any sense but I tried /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure? I don't think you get the option of reraising as the SB "raise" is not legal and ruled a call (or is that only preflop?)

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

An all-in must be at least half the previous bet to re-open the betting*. The bettor bet 120 and the SB will be all-in for 130 so that does not reopen the betting.

Paul

*This is a Party Poker rule. Normally in big-bet games the raise must be at least the size of the previous bet to reopen the betting.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure? I don't think you get the option of reraising as the SB "raise" is not legal and ruled a call (or is that only preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bet is 120, he has 130. If he doesn't fold, he's not going to save his 10 chips, he's going all-in. The guy leading the action is, most likely going to call the 10t (not re-raise), leaving me in position to go over the top of him.