getting back into 2/4... this laydown fine?

[SCfuji]

My image: I have only showdown AA twice. Other hands I didn't have to showdown, so I am sure that people know that I am aggressive.

Villain's image: Semi-solid player who hasn't gotten crazy post-flop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

[Nick C]

It looks to me like your flop raise got you the information you needed to get out of the hand cheaply.

Edit: I'm thinking calling the 3-bet and folding if unimproved and bet into again would be okay too.

[Shillx]

I would fold straight away on the flop. *Sigh*

Am I a pussy? You probably can't continue on in this pot after the 3-bet, but it is close. You will be getting 15.5:1 on the call. You need 22.5:1 so you need to get back 7 SB on the later streets should you hit your jack...can you do it? Against a player who "hasn't gone crazy post-flop" I think the fold is okay. Against a LAG you would need to call and pray you spike a jack.

Brad

[mr pink]

getting 15.5 to 1, i might peel here. you'd have to make up about 3 bbs on the turn and river which is definitely doable.

[toss]

I support the flop raise because villain may not have the K and fair amount of the times here. I also support the fold because of our read on the villain.

[SCfuji]

to me this looked like a classic case of AK vs a pocket pair to me.

if i peel one off im pretty sure i peel off another and then peel off a showdown.

i doubt this villain would go more than 2 bets on the river so the implied odds dont seem juicy enough to call my 2-outer.

i guess i posted this if any of you thought i got played. ive been jamming on the 50c tables for the past 20k hands so people raising me back is just awkward.

[SCfuji]

is calling all 3 streets stupid or is it a viable option?

what about waiting until the turn to raise to see if hes really got a hand?

[Michael Davis]

What about just flat folding on the flop?

-Michael

[toss]

Calling down on this flop aganist a semi-solid player seems kinda fishy to me. I'd be happier with calling down against a LAG. A turn raise seems kinda exspensive.

[Shillx]

if i peel one off im pretty sure i peel off another and then peel off a showdown.

This would be bad poker. He isn't putting in all of this action with TT or AQ or something. There is a very real chance that you have a nice hand when you 3-bet preflop and raise a flop K77 flop. You can't be doing this with a draw or something like that. OTW, his goal in life is not to move you off a hand.

You would peel one card and one card only and if you don't spike a jack you fold on the next street. Since you have positon, calling the 3-bet wouldn't be terrible since you will almost surely get 2 BB on the turn and 1 BB on the river. If he even slightly overplays his hand, you will make out fine by calling. If you were OOP, you couldn't afford to even take a look at a turn here, but it wouldn't be terrible in position imo.

Brad

[SCfuji]

hey michael,

im not good enough to know that im beat here unless i spend a few bucks. given my read of the villain and what i think the villain thinks of me can you comfortably lay this down without a fight? im just thinking that its weak poker at this level...

if you could expand thatd be awesome

thanks

[pshabi]

I could easily play 99 or 1010 like that.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
My image: I have only showdown AA twice. Other hands I didn't have to showdown, so I am sure that people know that I am aggressive.

Villain's image: Semi-solid player who hasn't gotten crazy post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


These reads/image are IMPORTANT here, imo.


I think I agree with MD and Shillx in folding to MP1's intial flop bet - especially given your reads/image from above.

What could MP1 be betting here that you beat? Not much. Perhaps TT-88. Compare that to AA-QQ, 77, AK, KQ, KJ, KT, A7 ....


In any case, you *must* fold to the flop 3-bet.


Adam

[SCfuji]

you would take my flop raise that lightly?

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold straight away on the flop. *Sigh*

[/ QUOTE ]

im stubborn /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[kurosh]

This is almost exactly like my hand that no one responded to besides pokerbob.
here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=smallholdem&amp;Number=1919032 &amp;Forum=,All_Forums,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;M ain=1919032&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=14533&amp;daterang e=&amp;newerval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyp rev=#Post1919032)

[pshabi]

Doh!

[ QUOTE ]
you would take my flop raise that lightly?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm making a play just like he did to see if I can catch you aggressive and get you to lay down right there (like you did).


If you call, I lead the turn. If you raise, I'm out.

Hope to check down the river, but call a bet.

Is THIS a terrible line assuming I hold 1010.

[SCfuji]

i have position on the villain. could you give me your thoughts with that in mind?

thanks

[Michael Davis]

Tough decision. It's not about being good, really, it's about guessing intelligently.

They say that players who bet into the preflop raiser usually don't have what they're representing, but the case of a preflop raiser against a threebettor is way different, and in my experience guys don't usually mess around in this situation.

It is, admittedly, a decent-sized pot already and folding every time would clearly be wrong. The other option is to play it like you did, IMO.

-Michael

[SCfuji]

its just friggen tough to fold JJ for a bet.

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
but the case of a preflop raiser against a threebettor is way different,

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you.