Hosting Black Jack

[UCF THAYER]

Not sure if this is the right forum but...
My friend hosts a poker game, and said if i wanted to, i could deal black jack at a seperate table to his players, but he would want a cut, and is not interested in backing the game/absorbing the losses.
If im backing the game completely, but using his game, what do you guys think is a proper cut i should give him?

[tubalkain]

Don't even do it... this is illegal in just about every jurisdiction that allows home poker.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't even do it... this is illegal in just about every jurisdiction that allows home poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not only that, but it's:
a) not fun. Who wants to play blackjack? It's a game of luck if you can't count cards, and a game of luck and memorization if you can. Blech.
b) not very profitable. Check out those tails on the binomial distribution. They're pretty thick. With just the normal house edge on Blackjack, there's a VERY good chance a player can bust the bank. It doesn't take much luck. Swings are big, and you'd need the bankroll to cover it. Blech.

I say you offer a 2nd poker game instead.
-Sam

[flatline]

If he doesn't want to back the game or absorb losses then f him. However, I wouldn't worry about it if he is letting you deal it for free. You might lose, but its +EV, so go for it.

[tubalkain]

[ QUOTE ]
If he doesn't want to back the game or absorb losses then f him. However, I wouldn't worry about it if he is letting you deal it for free. You might lose, but its +EV, so go for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The house edge on this is so low that giving him any cut would make it either -EV or so low +EV that it's not worth doing. Plus, if the players are anything resembling intelligent, say goodbye to your bankroll beforehand.

[TenPercenter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't even do it... this is illegal in just about every jurisdiction that allows home poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not only that, but it's:
a) not fun. Who wants to play blackjack? It's a game of luck if you can't count cards, and a game of luck and memorization if you can. Blech.
b) not very profitable. Check out those tails on the binomial distribution. They're pretty thick. With just the normal house edge on Blackjack, there's a VERY good chance a player can bust the bank. It doesn't take much luck. Swings are big, and you'd need the bankroll to cover it. Blech.

I say you offer a 2nd poker game instead.
-Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam, I disagree. 1) I LOVE dealing BJ. I don't know why, it's just fun. And I always seem to win (as the house), and the reason I win is not beacuase of the odds, its because... 2) ... the players play poorly.

We usually play at the end of the night, I'll just offer it up when my deal comes around and everyone says "ok." i pull out the shoe! Someone might get a little ahead, but once they lose a few they start getting crazy trying to get it back. I many times end up with all the money, or least all the money from a few players, and others do ok. No one ends up mad because they make all the decisions. And just like at a casino, they have plenty of advice for the EXACT correct way to play any hand.

Ten

p.s. Don't do it, it's illegal.

[Terry]

RE: What everybody else said.

I've been thinking of moving (back) to Florida. If I do, I'll deal BJ to all comers ... just let me know when and where.

Edited to add --

And I will deal a square game ... and I will bring the table, chips, cards, buy drinks, you name it. Just show me the players.

[TenPercenter]

I see no one actually answered your question. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I don't know, ten percent? Sounds about right to me, since he has zero risk.

Ten

[bubbafry]

The tough thing is how to calculate his cut. Some days you're going to win and he's going to get a piece, but when you lose he doesn't, which will cause you problems. Let's say the first day you deal and you end up +$550, and then the second night you deal and you end up -$500, which gives you net +$50 which is good. However, you're actual take is:

$550 - (%10 of $550) - 500 = 550 - 55 - 500 = -$5.

So you actually lose 5 bucks, even though you should have made a profit. As the poker folks know, you're going to have swings, and the only way to get an accurate measure of your profit is over long periods of time (don't ask me how long because I have no idea) or if you know exactly how much was wagered through the night (then you can just multiply the total amount wagered by the house edge and get your theoretical profit and give him 10% of that). The house edge in blackjack varies from 0.1% to 0.5% or more (differs depending on the rules, number of decks, etc.) so you could easily end up or down in the short term. Anyway, good luck with your new career /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BTW, I agree with the post above, tell your buddy to f off and ask him if he's supposed to be your friend why the hell is he trying to skim off of you /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[bubbafry]

And pray that no one at the game knows how to count cards effectively...

[ThinkQuick]

Hey house edge, schmouse edge. Haven't you guys ever seen the way that non 2+2ers play blackjack? You get a few of these guys and a minimum bet per hand and it really is +EV and worth the time. Set up a max too if you're worried about going bust.

As for negotiating with your friend, NEGOTIATE with him. A reasonable rate would be the lowest that you could possibly pay him, presuming that you are still making a profit. Maybe a good way to negate bubbafry's problem is to pay him every (as long as possible) instead of every game. That way he gets his cut and you don't have to pay him big when variance is in your favour. He can count the chips every day and keep track himself if he wants.

[lefty rosen]

If the guys suck at poker it's not like they can be any good at BJ. So book their action and win. Just cap their max bets at a low end so they don't lose too much and you don't risk too much. Just keep it in a tight circle, otherwise eventually you will get busted.......

[bubbafry]

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Maybe a good way to negate bubbafry's problem is to pay him every (as long as possible) instead of every game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the question is how long is enough? You know he's going to turn a profit for sure as long as he is +$ for each payment period (he could have some -$ periods and still be up, but that's too complicated for my puny brain). His friend's cut hurts him the most when he has big +$ periods and big -$ periods. So the trick is to figure out how long he has to go between payment periods to ensure he is +$ each time, which depends on how sure he wants to be.

Assuming a house edge of 0.5% and a standard deviation of 1.2 units per bet, after 2304 bets he would be +$ about 95% of the time (2SD's). If an average player plays 60 hands/hour and you have 3 players, that would be 12.8 hours of blackjack. So, I suppose if he deals 3 hours/week on average, then he could calculate his profit every 4-6 weeks and take his friends cut from that.

I have a headache...

[Fins]

I would give him somewhere in the neighborhood of zero, squat, nada... I'm with the f him if he won't back the bank. If he does than it's a straight %... backs 25%, then 25% of take. I think Blackjack's a lot of fun but you can definitely have some big swings.

- Fins

[SugarV]

I agree...no backing, no cut. F'em.

When I hosted blackjack, $1 minimum $30 max. Every now and then I would let someone make a $50 or $100 bet. Mostly everyone stayed around 1 or 5. I ran it about 4 nights a week. The take per night was about $350-400.

I say go for it. I paid for custom chips for the table in a week and a half, running a great game.

sv