PDA

View Full Version : old nl tournament hand


nicky g
10-02-2002, 08:45 AM
this hand took place a long time ago but it still annoys me...
i'd won a place in a £300 (about$500) nl hold'em tourney through a supersatellite. this was a massive game for me as i'd never played highrer than a £10 tourney before. i would have sold my seat as i wasn't confident (i'd come down to the casino thinikng it was a normal cash tourney) but it was forbidden, so i went into the tourney with trepidation.

we started with 3000 chips and blinds of 25-50. early on in the big blind, i found pocket fives. a very solid pro in early position made a standard raise to 250. another very solid agressive pro flat called, and i called the 200, closing the betting. flop came down 5h 9s Qs. these pros knew i had qualified and could see i was something of a newby, so i made a weak bet of 200, hoping this would induce the raiser to put in a big raise. however he flat called. now the other pro who had flat-called made a giant raise of 1500. i had the raise i wanted, but from the wrong player. instead of going all-in like i had meant to, i found myself convinced that he had trip nines. i don't know why, my hardly ever put reads on people, but i became convinced. i'd just read tj's book and that combined with the fact i was facing a massive raise from a recognised pro, with another still to act behind me led me to see monsters everywhere. i laid down the hand, and so did the pre-flop raiser, and that was that. needless to say that was my last decent hand and i got knocked out when i went all in short-stacked with 100 and got beaten by a q (by an a q q flop, just to rub it in!)
it's niggled me for ages; was i right to go with my read or did i just let myself get run over? could he have been betting a draw? did my weak bet and the raiser's mere call induce a bluff or bet from a week hand?
we'll never know but i'd love to know how others rate my fold/ have an idea what might have been going on.

ohkanada
10-02-2002, 09:37 AM
I wouldn't have laid it down. All-in!

I think you were too worried about who the players were instead of the situation at hand. Sure it is possible he has 99. QQ would most likely re-raise pre-flop. He could also have a big suited ace with a nut flush draw. 2 pair seems unlikely. JT seems unlikely.

Ken Poklitar

The Prince
10-02-2002, 09:40 AM
nicky g,

I hate to say it but " yeeeeesh ! ".

I mean, set vs set is a pretty rare event. It would really take the read of a lifetime for me to lay down the hand. The raiser might have a hand like AQs or even KK. He could also have a hand like JsTs and be semi-bluffing a big draw. Of course he certainly could have QQ or 99 but that's just not likely.

I push all-in 99.9% of the time here. Nope, make that 100%. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

10-02-2002, 10:00 AM
i know, i know... back then i had a habit of seeing every move as a trap. regardless of any possible read, i was hugely outclassed and should have taken any opportunity i had to win a big pot, cos i wasn't going to get very far on my own steam.
that said, i wasn't the only one to give him credit for a big'n - 2 people enquired "trip queens"? the guy in question had an amazing bility to make everyne think he had the nuts, despite rarely showing a hand. but it was an amazingly poor play. just wanted to get it off my chest, really. don;t worry, i wouldn't do it now /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

10-02-2002, 11:16 AM
"i was hugely outclassed and should have taken any opportunity i had to win a big pot, cos i wasn't going to get very far on my own steam"

That's exactly what I was going to say - without being nasty :-). I keep banging on about this but it is so important, if you are taking a shot against better players you must take your chances, you cannot afford to be making big lay-downs, and frankly I would advise anyone who is playing against better opponents in a tournament to forget about survival and just go for it.

Andy.

The Prince
10-02-2002, 11:28 AM
What's positive about your hand is that you did think there was a possibility you were beat. I mean, that's a great step towards getting better. Some players just never ever lay a good hand down.

Just don't lay a set down... /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

nicky g
10-02-2002, 12:55 PM
haha andy, i was just reading your last post on gutshot and thinking you might like to contribute something to this. i think you are definitely right, but at the time i had it topsy turvy, and had badly misunderstood some books i'd read (though i don't much rate the books these days - mcevoy, and tj and mcevoy), and rated survival above all else.
that said i don't agree with you about the kdjd post on gutshot /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
to the prince, don't worry i won't, though i do remember around the same time getting all my money in on online nl heads-up cash game with bottom set, only to lose to top set. that's a heads-up game, not pot. now that was an annoying beat.
thanks to all for replies.

qwerty
10-03-2002, 04:33 AM
I of course would also go all in. But I wonder about the pre flop call. Is it automatic? You are putting about 1/15 of your stack on a 1/8 shoot. So you have to put in, and get called, half of your stack when you hit, just to break even. Considering that you are against two pros who might well make good lay downs when they have a good hand, or that they may not have anything when you hit, is this a good pre-flop call ?

Comments?

Qwerty