Non-pot committed call with 83o?

[adanthar]

Halfway through the second hour of a Full Tilt 100+9 MTT. I have 2500 chips (the average is around 4K) after a dumb call, but the blinds are 80/160 and there's lots of room to maneuver. 40 of 90 people or so are left; it pays 9, so we're not near the bubble just yet.

Hoyt Corkins is in the CO with the tournament's lowest stack at 450 chips. He open raises 400 of them. I put him on two cards, so odds are my 83o in the SB is live.

As with any pro, there's a bounty on Hoyt's head. In this case, it's 100 bucks and a T-shirt. I like T-shirts. On the other hand, I have 83o, calling 370 to win 690.

Without saying what I did, I think if I had 5K chips this would've been an easy call.

Comments?

[Roman]

whats BB stack size? How tight is he?

If I was BB, I would call here. As SB, it really depends on who the BB is.

[MLG]

meh, this doesnt seem like a strategy decision per se. if you're playing this tourney to make every dollar possible this is a pretty easy fold. if your enjoying yourself, enjoying playing with the pros, and just overall having fun, and the fun is more important than the tiny amound of chip EV you give up sure throw in a call. i would, i like t-shirts. its very easy for us all to forget that poker is a game to be enjoyed. playing correctly adds enjoyment (as well as profitability) for all of us, but there are exceptions. this could be one.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
meh, this doesnt seem like a strategy decision per se. if you're playing this tourney to make every dollar possible this is a pretty easy fold. if your enjoying yourself, enjoying playing with the pros, and just overall having fun, and the fun is more important than the tiny amound of chip EV you give up sure throw in a call. i would, i like t-shirts. its very easy for us all to forget that poker is a game to be enjoyed. playing correctly adds enjoyment (as well as profitability) for all of us, but there are exceptions. this could be one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. The overriding factor is the bounty. IMO this makes it a clear call. It is a little -EV chipwise, but the bounty is just too valuable.

[MLG]

the bounty is pretty small by comparison to the tournies top couple of prizes. i think calling for the bounty is actually sacrificing EV. id still do it, i like t-shirts.

[HoldingFolding]

Easy call. A T-shirt /images/graemlins/grin.gif and you get to say you knocked Hoyt Corkins out of a tourney /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Not even close.

[curtains]

I dont understand, you get $100 if you knock him out? That makes it a very easy call.

[valenzuela]

I dont like t-shirts that much but I do like $100 so I call.

[gumpzilla]

Seeing the responses in this thread, I wonder if having a bounty on you is a +EV situation. My initial thought was yes, based on plays like this where people are likely to be calling you with utter dogs, but of course when the bubble nears you'll be getting zippo folding equity. But if people are making -chip EV moves against you regularly early, you may not be in a position where you are short at the bubble, so perhaps that doesn't matter.

Thoughts?

[adanthar]

I've thought about this myself since I play a lot of FT tourneys now and I think that may be a reason why most of the pros are never in the money.

Well, that, or they're screwing around at low stakes too much. But I'd guess the bounty EV is directly proportional to how many monsters you get that day.

[JaBlue]

Seriously, the bounty is a buy-in. The play is -EV, but not that much; he's getting 1.86:1 on what is probably a 2:1 shot. Money-wise this seems so incredibly clearly +EV to call here. 44% of the field is left, hero has ~63% of average stack. Hero is worth 143$ if he is an average player. If he changes to 50% av. stack, he will now be worth little over 114$. If he wins this hand, he'll be 75% of av. stack and have 170$ in T-equity plus a 100$ bounty.


if he wins change in Tequity if he loses
EV : {[1(170)+100] + 2(114-143)}/3 = +70$

Clearly +EV.

[MLG]

nh sir.

[adanthar]

I figured something along those lines. Unfortunately, the guy to my left was a moron and liable to call a reraise with complete trash that was still better than mine so I folded /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

It wasn't a big deal since Hoyt's QJ lost to the guy's Axs (that he had to think about before calling), but it did piss me off when he asked 'do I get something for this?' afterwards. Sigh.

[JaBlue]

Yeah. If it's impossible to isolate, then this play sucks. Against a tight BB, though, you should most certainly be going all in here.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
the bounty is pretty small by comparison to the tournies top couple of prizes. i think calling for the bounty is actually sacrificing EV. id still do it, i like t-shirts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, having watched this tourney I can say that it was much smaller than you probably expect. 1st place only paid about 18 buyins.

Add that to the fact that he's getting almost (but not quite) 2/1, for only 20% of his stack. That likely makes the -$EV slight even without the bounty. With the bounty, and the small prize pool, this is a pretty attractive call. I'd still muck from the SB, though. FT players love to protect their blinds.