Pot big enough to call here? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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DoctorDrew

03-15-2005, 09:03 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

?3-bet this board? Draw to the nut flush and 2 overcards. 

Turn: (6.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

River: (6.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

MP3 was pure fish. I was 90% sure he would call no matter what. So, I had this at 1:8.75. The board is ultracoordianted, and I don't have anything. But, I just have to be correct once every 11 times. The turn checkthrough really had me confused. I think I am taking too many weak hands to SD and I'm killing my win rate. 

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Chris Daddy Cool

03-15-2005, 09:11 AM

3betting the flop has value to it if you elect to go that route.

if you know mp3 will overcall this river no matter what and all you hold is A high you should fold. it is not because mp3 might have you beat, but because the CO knows this about mp3 and would not bet a river without value since it is essentially "protected".

Isura

03-15-2005, 09:29 AM

3-bet the flop for.
Turn is fine.
That's a pretty bad river call getting only 7 to 1. Either check/fold or bet the river yourself.

DoctorDrew

03-15-2005, 10:04 AM

I know this is terrible play. I can't believe I called this.

My plan got all screwed up. I planned to call the flop raise, check-raise the turn and check/fold UI. The turn got checked through. So, now he bets the river and I'm sitting there asking, "What could he hold that raises the flop, checks the turn and bets this river?" So, in my confusion I waited and waited and hit the call button.

He turned over KTd for the flopped nuts. In the grand scheme, I probably saved 1 bet (maybe 2), but could have lost less. Just plain stupid. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

jrz1972

03-15-2005, 10:08 AM

Why would you check-raise the turn? Your raise wouldn't be for value with only two opponents left in the pot, and your fold equity would be much lower with a check-raise than if you had just three-bet the flop and led off the turn. Check-raising seems like your worst possible line.

Buckmulligan

03-15-2005, 10:11 AM

Im 3 betting and checking the turn.

DoctorDrew

03-15-2005, 10:22 AM

On the turn, I still have 7 outs to the nuts. I might take down the pot (very small chance). MP3 holds?? I think villian has a flush but he could be drawing as well. I wasn't sure about MP3. If he has me reverse dominated, I pick up a feww outs if he folds.

adsman

03-15-2005, 10:26 AM

I can't believe that CO checked the turn here, giving a free card to the possible Ace out. Plus missing out on 2BB at least, since you were planning on check raising him, so probably a lot more. Add this guy to your list for sure.

sean c

03-15-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Im 3 betting and checking the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we checking the turn because we no longer have enough equity to bet for value?

noneckdude

03-15-2005, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, I still have 7 outs to the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're not drawing to the nuts, the nuts would be a straight-flush. I think I would fold to the raise on the flop and wait for a better chance. Because what if you hit the turn when a J, T, 9, 5 or 4 of /images/graemlins/diamond.gif slides off ... and you could already be drawing dead.

DoctorDrew

03-15-2005, 11:49 AM

You are partly right. The jack is safe. If that gives him the str8flsh, he already had it. No one has the str8flush now, but I could be walking into a trap no doubt. I did not comntemplate that. Thanks.

As I said before, after the accident I've been out for six months and I am just crawling back into poker so I need to get back to quick thinking actions. I did miss that.

wyoak

03-15-2005, 11:53 AM

am i wrong to not worry about straight flushes beating my ace high flushes?

DoctorDrew

03-15-2005, 12:00 PM

No, you shouldn't WORRY about it, you just have to be aware of the possibility and probably subtract a little from your outs (which I ddin't do). Don't look for the monsters under the bed, but know that sometimes they are there.

In this case, highly unlikely someone flopped a Str8flsh, but could hold the Td (like villan did) or 9d.